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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #46 
Nanette, I've made several notes on the Daxis emails. August 12th, 2006, page 396/7, he uses the word "electrocardiogram", page 400; he hints of his condition. This supports the timeline of Tarrances death. Tarrance must have taken ill along about the 15th, since the emails drop off.

References were made to Carly Simon's song, "You're So Vain", wasn't that song long before Karrs time, he'd have been a little kid when that song was out? Also, on page 405; he makes ref to "Raymond", meaning the "Everybody Loves Raymond" sitcom? Would Karr have even gotten to see that show given the time frame he was on the run? Maybe so.

Nanette, if I recall correctly, you've posted something about this angle of inquiry, meaning, Jack's condition at that point in time.

Page 405; misspelled words, not like Karr to do so, he was too tidy to do that!
Page 415; he wrote "A Sudden Change of Heart"! Zodiac Jack 101, once again!

Maybe Zodiac Jack didn't let Karr in on the movie lines business on the ransom note, this would explain why Karr acts as though he doesn't follow that business? If Karr is really wired like a woman, he might not have cared for those particular movies, not like most men would have liked them.

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Reply with quote  #47 

My understanding of the female DNA collection at this point is due to the number of females that stayed in JBR’s room. They needed to source all the DNA in her room to see if any DNA existed from the perpetrator. So, I think that Tracey monopolized on bringing up a female at the crime that JMK initially claimed and then recanted. I think it was just another way to sidetrack the truth. Like I said, the DNA expert who works for DOJ claimed that there was a male sample and nothing more. Not 2 different DNA samples from a female and a male or 2 males, but only one sample found in JBR’s underwear.

I took notice to the Daxis pentagon project, but have not had the time to look it up. I believe that Z101 requires him to refer to things that bothers him using twisted statements you have to peel back their true meaning to understand what he was really trying to say like, “superfudge works well” in the Tim Miller letter of September 2005.

I believe that the word “key” is very key to JT/Z….

I would think that Karr would have the opportunity to know JT beings he lived in No. Cali just as JT did during the years preceding JBR’s murder. I also found it curious that of all people JMK would attempt to make contact with is Richard Davis of the Polly Klaas murder from the Sonoma/Santa Rosa area, and we know that Sonoma Co. and Santa Rosa believe that they have Z murders as well….  This is no coincidence, or these areas need to stop breeding pedophiliac murders!!! LOL

I think that the stun gun theory is just that, a theory… The reports I read indicated that there was a millimeter difference in the width of the marks found on JBR and those of a stun gun. I would think that if a stun gun was used, that the marks would be consistent and the same exact width as the prongs of the stun gun, and not wider. This may very well be as you stated TerryB, about it being finger marks instead… From what I can tell, no one indicated that it was in fact stun gun marks, but that it is possible that they could be. Wouldn’t there be some type of reference for stun gun marks and what to expect as far as injury or markings due to the fact that we have been using them for so long? Shouldn’t someone be able to look back now and determine if the marks are even consistent with what we know today?

I would have thought that JMK would have been called out on the tying and hanging by the wrists, and automatically figured to be a nutcase, but they kept up the ruse with him… They claimed that the wrist tying was staged; however, JMK seems to believe that they were used---was this the camp trying to keep up with the staging of a kidnapping?

 I tend to think that everyone had way too much info on the Ramsey home especially since it was on some type of old home tourism schedule. Many people would have the opportunity to go through this house room by room. Scary!

Yes, the big question, how did JMK know about the engraving???

Actually TerryB, JT took ill with congestive heart failure in Feb. 1997 after returning to California to meet back up with his family in December 1996 where he was very ill and unable to travel back to Texas until after the beginning of the new year. They fixed him for the time being, but you are very correct in the immediate downturn of his health in August. I believe that somewhere around 2002 we see a desperate attempt at receiving recognition with TV and initial contact with Michael Tracey. But by Sept. 2005 JT must have been given a sentence for death, and this is why we see this huge push for recognition with Michael Tracey, Tim Miller 9-2005, JT goes to Texas 9-2005 to pick up stored boxes from his aunt, JT gives DK the “key” to his storage shed in AZ. Strange to have a storage in a state you are not living in, plus boxes stored with a family member for so long she ultimately throws them away because she doesn’t think you are coming back for them without telling you. DK made a pact with JT in 11-2005 to uncover who was covering his identity up based on DK’s efforts and lack of LE interest in the truth from 2000-2005. DK claims he was returning all the items he had to JT and letting him know that no one was interested in JT/Z connection. This I believe infuriated JT to the point of giving DK all he had to prove that he was Z. Why else would JT give DK his storage shed, and not his own children???

I also found it curious that JMK made the comment that he didn’t want his family to figure out who was writing the book because he was afraid of what they would think. This is a near direct quote from JT to DK in one of his recorded messages about DK writing a book about JT/Z. JT only wanted it published after he died…

 


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #48 
Nanette, I think Karr lied just enough about the case for it to later act as exculpatory. Especially the movie lines business. It was well known amongst those that studied the case back then that the ransom note had those lines. Compare that with the far too many things he apparently did know and you get my meaning. He knew about Smit and Thomas, he knew about the parents room being nearest to the garage so he could see them coming home, he knew about the black duct tape. In those emails, he is caught lying several times, back and forth, over and over.

Karr seemed to have had plenty of money to travel too.

Yeah, it's pretty obvious when it's not Karr composing some of those emails. I'm convinced that he should have been charged with conspiracy, it's readily provable that the emails contain a second author. You'd think that a Professor of Journalism like Tracey would pick up on this facet of the emails? There's a stark and obvious contrast in compositions. Page 405 has misspelled words, that would be far too sloppy for Karr to have done.

It's real important for the Karr camp to have everyone believe that the crime was a sex crime done by a pedophile. This should trigger those that study the case to reject that notion and look for the true motive, which I think; has to do with someone wanting to undermine John Ramsey's corporate climb. The Krebs message also served to convey this same message that Karr's camp is trying hard to convey, they were trying way too hard IMHO. If for nothing else; to discredit Access Graphics and open the door wider for a rival. Far too much effort has been spent trying to make the Ramsey's look bad, when that ploy tends to fade, then they step up their efforts, that's what's been going on ever since the murder. They wanna keep the Ramsey's image tainted.

It has too be a setback for these same conspirators, since the findings of the Grand Jury have now been released. As you know; the Grand Jury didn't believe that the Ramsey's actually did the murder but that they suspect that the  Ramsey's were covering for someone that did. This is the faulty and nearsighted opinion of some members of LE. Some members of LE are still trying to cover their asses, IMHO.

Another way I view the motive; is that the conspirators may use this case as an example to threaten other "fat cats" that they wanna shake down.

I don't put a lot of faith in the DNA business, the body was reportedly washed etc, similar to OCCK. They said the marks fit the Air Taser brand. The fact that one mark is much larger than the other, gives me reason for pause, couple that with the reports in the OCCK case of similar marks.

I like your point about the super-fudge, I think it's very pertinent or "key" to the linkage of those cases.
I too, think JT was trying hard to leave a trail back to him, it's just that the people he worked for have far too much control over far too many "made" men. Pedophilia is their "key" device, IMHO. I still say the titles of Karr's chapters could be kiddie porn titles.
[11/13/15, edited a type o.]

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #49 
Nanette, page 166, Karr camp quotes "Stop All the Clocks" aka "Funeral Blues" by A H Auden, Auden died in 1973. This is another Zodiac Jack 101 clue. Stop all the Clocks!
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Reply with quote  #50 
Very much a Z/JT 101, and that it was a book ties into Jack even more...
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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #51 
Nanette, all of the second authors writings are Zodiac Jack 101, right to the cardiogram hint. It's a lot of JT101 when added all together! There's too much of it to be written off as a coincidence.

I've been compiling all of the second Karr author's JT101 evidence, and so far, it's a lot! He put it in there know that eventually it would be discovered.

But again, why haven't Tracey or the cops noted the very obvious evidence of the undereducated second author vs the very meticulously written Karr messages?

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Reply with quote  #52 
I think that we still  don't have all the emails either. Those released seem far too menial and short for the likes of Z/JT. However, "JMK" refers to those emails which contain more that we haven't read, I'm sure.

I wonder if all of them, JW, TM, JR, and BK, knew why this happened to them. Not necessarily who because I think they would have made sure that the person who did paid for it, like in the Klaas case. I often wonder if Richard Davis was really the killer???

JT mentioned that others had taken his fall, and this was in 2005, I believe.

As far as noting the similarities, I think it boils down to the crossing of jurisdictions, and honestly one didn't know from the next what was going on, and if anyone caught onto the link, I think for some reason that they were shut down. Why else didn't Chris Hopkins get this info to someone above him at the FBI, so that some real investigative work could be applied and quite possibly close this case??? Chris almost never had a lot of extra time for this case it seemed.

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #53 
We've only viewed the last year of them,  we've only perused April 30th through August 16th of 2006! That means there are tons of them we haven't even seen!

It seems to me there was solid evidence linking Richard Davis, but you know how this stuff goes.

It's a forgone conclusion to not trust the FBI's upper brass, that's for damn sure. Even in the local publication of Secrets and Nightmares which is about the 1984 Jordan MN child sexual abuse scandal, the author had papers written by other people, legal professionals etc, that were highly critical and suspicious of the FBI. To me and at this point in time, that whole escapade rings just like the rest of these crimes, like someone with a lot of power was running the whole thing from behind the scenes. They said the same thing, that it was like the whole thing was suddenly shut down.

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Reply with quote  #54 
I don't feel like he took credit for the crime until closer to April 06 The way Tracey speaks it seems that he was more of a groupie of JBR in the beginning, but the long emails that "JMK" claims Tracey didn't answer were relatively close to the ones we are reading because he is referring to them in the near past tense as to when they were sent.
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Reply with quote  #55 
OK, I looked up the letter that you reference, and I may just ask a question that blows your mind...

The letter that was associated with the Anthrax mailings with an attempt to bulldoze Hatfill was mailed from Malaysia. I got that, and obviously their bad attempt of dumping this onto him was nothing short of one person's agenda.


So, the letter mailed from London in November 2001:

OK, that was strange... I wiki'd John Mark Karr and his page no longer exists.... hmmmmm disturbing!

Good thing I printed it back in 2010 [smile] [smile] [smile]

Anywho, after the arrest, in April 13, 2001, of John Mark Karr, he was released on October 15, 2001, and a mere 45 or so days before trial set in December 2001. John Mark Karr failed to appear.... Skipped the country, and ended up arrested in Thailand.

I believe that per the Michael Tracey emails "JMK" claimed that he spent time in London with a little girl after leaving the US and before Thailand which is where he is in those emails.

If JMK was trying to claim being the Zodiac by mailing TV's letters for JT from Singapore and Thailand, and pretending to be the author of the letter from JonBenet's killer by emailing Michael Tracey and taking credit with specific knowledge, is it too far fetched to think that he also pretended to be the Anthrax writer by giving his last location as London and Malaysia by sending the last Anthrax letters from out of the country once he got there?

Think about it for a second.... There was a lot of talk during 2001 about the Anthrax mailer being Zodiac. I remember that I didn't know who people were talking about when they said it, but it was said!

Was this another attempt to make it look like this was indeed all one person's doing by way of shifting the attention to another location??? As it stands, this is one of the last letters associated with this case mailed. As if to say, it started in New Jersey and ended in London where a foreign faction might be, or JMK doing some serious dirty work to cover up JT's doings.

More food for thought.
   

Posted in two threads to keep both conversations current...              

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #56 
That's an interesting angle on those events. I tend to be very skeptical of Rosenburg  on this matter, she tried too hard and too often to implicate Hatfil. She couldn't have had anything in the way of real evidence, yet she just kept up her campaign to implicate Dr Hatfil.

Nanette, you'll have to clarify the TV/JT relationship for me. I just don't quite follow the trail on why you think or what you have to support this. I understand that TV is and has been acting to obstruct the JT connection but I've always viewed that as stemming from a dislike for Dennis, plus perhaps because TV benefits by keeping the Zodiac killer thing a mystery. Maybe he's part of an ongoing coverup?

As you know, the anthrax case is in every way, Zodiac Jack 101.  Certainly the anthrax case is the work of a criminal conspiracy, I don't see how Zodiac Jack could have gotten weapons grade anthrax all on his own?

The fact that you and I have readily discovered that the Daxis emails have at least two different authors in the Daxis camp; tells me that a conspiracy to cover is still ongoing. There's just no way truly honest LE investigators would miss a thing like this, no way!

I'm currently reviewing the DC sniper case. The fact that an FBI worker was gunned down in the Home Depot parking lot during that era, raises suspicion.


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Reply with quote  #57 

TerryB, the letters you are asking about to Tom Voigt are:

First one mailed from Singapore with fingerprints, DNA, and toxic substance in Choy packaging. I believe that TV has been recognized from America's Most Wanted with John Walsh on the Zodiac case, and there is a movie in the works that the author wants to give firsthand info on. Note the Taxi Cab stamp on the envelope...JT/Z 101.

PS the handwriting in these letters were identified by Charles Tarrance as being his father's handwriting. He recognized it in just a glance.


[AllVoigt600dpi_0001] 


[AllVoigt600dpi_0002] 


[AllVoigt600dpi_0003] Here the author claims to be Zodiac and providing evidence like DNA and fingerprints to support who he is, or maybe testing to see if there is any evidence in which to compare it to??? TV has claimed that these were fakes sent by a female. If so, then why withhold the 2nd page and 2 paragraphs on 3rd page? Either way, JMK is already in this area by now.... Does the toxic substance remind you of the Anthrax letters mailed out of London and Malaysia? As a tie in to the Anthrax mailings??? And, could JMK have been the accomplice in mailing them???

[AllVoigt600dpi_0005] 


[AllVoigt600dpi_0006] 


[AllVoigt600dpi_0004] This one mailed from Singapore in January 9, 2003: The author is convinced that the evidence mailed to Tom Voigt would somehow identify him as the Zodiac killer, but per TV, it doesn't... I ask, why would a fake send in fingerprint and DNA that would automatically deem them as a fake??? Why would the fake then follow up with a second letter recognizing that TV would know the truth now because of that evidence sent in??? Who would send in evidence that would exclude them as a possible suspect so that the next letter would only be in vain??? Again, why is there information redacted if these were found to be fakes??? Because they had pertinent knowledge of the crime just like JMK had of JBR???


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #58 
Thank you Nanette, I'll have to study all of this and mull it over, then respond.

I will say that I tend to think that JMK was probably kept in the dark on some of this stuff, that they handled him, but that he didn't really know whom they were. (?) Karr did get around  and seemed to have the money to do so. TV is a fishy guy.

I would like you to look at the written documents in the Beltway sniper case, it happened a year after 9/ 11. It's all highly suspicious with the way it went down. Don't spend a lot o time on it, just look things over for now, it stinks badly.

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #59 
I take it that you do feel that these documents were made by Zodiac Jack...correct? They appear to be in JT's hand at first glance but I'd have to study that aspect of them some more.

My take on this is that the main purpose of these is to steer the thinking away from  true motives in the Zodiac killer cases, much the same way the Daxis emails try to do so in the Ramsey case.

The only fingerprints reportedly found in the Zodiac killer case was a palm print left on the Stine murder document. As far as DNA goes, which crime are they supposed to be from? We know that JT dipped his hands up to the wrists in acid to wipe out his prints. So why the game with the prints? Is it to flaunt his immunity from being exposed by the FBI? Or was it another cruel joke? Perhaps the fingerprints were from one of his victims?

I take the stamp of the taxi cab to be another taunt, no doubt about that.

I tend to suspect that the unidentified palm print found on the cellar door at the Ramsey's was intentionally placed there, perhaps as a link to the Stine murder?

The message to TV is clear, that he thinks that TV's work is fiction. This would explain why TV downplays these letters.

And.....what exactly was the toxic substance?

BTW, when the Beltway sniper murders were underway, I think the motive was to cover up the true motive in the  deliberate murder of the FBI woman, perhaps the same goes for some of  the other victims. That Chevy was seen at most of the shootings, why did the media report white vans instead? It's all too pat and all too fishy. When you look at her role at the FBI, it takes on a different dimension. What are the chances that the Beltway sniper is gonna shoot a FBI person out of all of the many other targets readily available? Slim to none I'd say!

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Reply with quote  #60 
The fingerprints do not appear to be complete, but remember at this point in time DK was trying to pin Z on JT and he knew it, so why not just come forward to DK if he truly wanted recognition for his crimes. I tend to think it was a ploy to make people believe he was no longer in the country, especially if, the FBI was truly watching him as DK stated.

I don't know anything about the Beltway sniper or where this even occurred. I will take a look see...

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