Message Board
Register Calendar
 
 
 


Reply
  Author   Comment   Page 3 of 6      Prev   1   2   3   4   5   6   Next
habituation

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,192
Reply with quote  #31 
Yes Catseye, I am too excited about what (Redacted) is finding. The results are consistent between each and every code/anagram/cipher he is reviewing. He did indicate that there is a secondary message in the 408, and he is now referring to the language as Tarranese which I thought was perfect.

I met with a detective who is working on Tim Miller's case. He too found the connections between the Zodiac and Tim Miller's letter so convincing he flew out and met with me a week or so ago. He indicated that FBI could not be trusted and he was hoping to get a FBI agent outside of Texas. I laughed because if he is having just as many problems as DK and I with the FBI then it concludes we are dealing with the same suspect, and there is no hope that the FBI will stand up and do the right thing. He also said that CIA/FBI can remote into your computer, turn it on, and view you through your webcam without you even knowing it. Sad, sad, sad... I hope they saw me picking my nose!

The detective plans on taking (Redacted) solves to a cryptographer to see if they are valid. I hope to hear something soon...

__________________
Have a positive and inspirational day!
TerryB

Registered:
Posts: 1,638
Reply with quote  #32 
Without carefully studying (Redacted) every step, it's gets to be tough to follow him. For example: Where or what section did he extract the MKULTRA thing from? This kind of work is very tedious stuff, I lack the patience and time to work these things like (Redacted) has. His interpretation of symbols plays a big role in his solutions, that can open the door for some heavy handed criticism. Otherwise, once again the solutions he's offered seem to be linear and coherent. And they do fit in with many things that we know.

I get a little more than nervous when catseye is involved, she's the queen of 'too much information', information that jumps around too much, she plays a role...but man ....it needs editing to remain credible.She leaps to too many conclusions without posting a coherent train of thought. On the other hand, we all remember the Navaho 'wind talkers' during the WWII era. Her bend of Tarrance's activities being motivated as a native  American Indian vengeance thing is something that she has never laid a proper foundation for. Many of the tribal symbols have not been used in the cryptograms, some remind us of them but some remind us of other symbols from other sources around the world.

Tarrance could have adapted any symbols he wanted to, this is what he appears to have done and fits in with (Redacted) interpretation too. Many of the symbols are right from the Greek alphabet, forwards, backwards and upside down.

Remember the umlaut in the JonBenet Ramsey ransom note? Or the backwards stemmed 't' found both on the note and on the backwards stemmed 'J' on the victims hand along with a Zodiac style cross-hairs?!!! FoR HeaVens SaKe.

__________________
One small bit of info might make all the difference.
707Catseye

Registered:
Posts: 45
Reply with quote  #33 
I gone over MK Ultra long before the Internet when media thought SLA fugitive Kilgore was a Zodiac suspect so: 1 Symbionese Liberation Army wanted to Liberate a zk suspect Charles Manson (CIA Orange Sunshine LSD user/pusher) who had ppl like zk suspect Bruce Davis living in Symbiosis with others under his control. 2. SLA member Donald DeFreeze was a CIA mind control program victim. 3 Kilgore supported the SLA activities, put Hearst in isolation & brainwashing like MK Ultra style... I could go on. Then Unabom was also thought to be ZK & Ted Kacsynki - a zk suspect turns out to be Unabomber & he's in MKUltra stuff..... will add more later but at least my face is out there, the real me, like Nanette Dennis (Redacted) to take the heat or the glory or both for our honest endeavors.
TerryB

Registered:
Posts: 1,638
Reply with quote  #34 
It appears that the CIA and MKULTRA solution was taken "out of order" meaning from left to right and somewhat at random. In other words the whole cypher is treated by (Redacted) as an anagram, hence the different primary, secondary and tertiary solutions.

Everybody likes and uses the word 'hence' nowadays, or so it seems!

I went to look up the 408 and 32 cyphers and I see all kinds of new approaches being taken that are now posted on the net.

The evidence in these cases does come 'full circle' and does indicate the involvement of somebody that has a special connection to some government, especially with regard to the weapons grade anthrax material usage in the Amerithrax case.

I was hoping (Redacted) might try phrases or words like 'time', 'for heavens sake' or 'things aren't what they seem' as key codes to be applied to the 340 cipher. It might be a wheel spinner but then again maybe not? That's why I like the idea of a more comprehensive computer program to be applied to these cryptograms. I agree with (Redacted) when he says that the FBI probably has already solved or already knows the answers regarding this encoded message business.

Meanwhile, ponder this Beltway Sniper document: PS, Part of my goal is to avoid hurting catseye's feelings, if I can at all help it.snipermalvo_drawing2-21washingtond-c.jpg 



__________________
One small bit of info might make all the difference.
707Catseye

Registered:
Posts: 45
Reply with quote  #35 
I lost net service earlier so want to say as far as SLA Kilgore, Soliah, Harris's...theyve paid debt to society. Kacynski cleared as zk years ago. I believe other old zk suspects may be associated with or possibly somehow connected to CIA MK Ultra but only TARRANCE has yet to be officialy cleared by LE. Nanette you may want to start new thread about 2001 when MK Ultra is declassified & coincidence of zk letters altered making JTs trademark belltop lowercase A hard for Dennis to find...among other things of JTs zk communications like CBS13 2009 story aired.
707Catseye

Registered:
Posts: 45
Reply with quote  #36 
FYI- as posted at 340 Questions thread- symbols Im confident that JT used & recreated in z408 z340 z32 z13 & are mostly Native American are found in CIA & military wilderness training regions ranging from Cal/Nev border to New Mexico. CIA grew out of WWII Navajo Code Talkers & OSS. The Navajo Code Talkers WWII activies were kept secret until declassified 1968.
Jupiter

Registered:
Posts: 96
Reply with quote  #37 
Quote:
His interpretation of symbols plays a big role in his solutions, that can open the door for some heavy handed criticism.


I agree that this has the potential to be a big weakness in these solves. In some places, the interpretations seem very forced, as though he is trying to make Jack's name fit rather than having it appear organically through the solve. For instance, his statement that he has identified the letters "J", "C", and "K" in what he calls the "Taurus symbols" after Photoshop pixel removal of the associated Taurus symbols. It would be exceedingly difficult to prove in court that this type of alteration of the original symbols was accurate.

In terms of the Navajo Code Talker Program, this was developed, overseen, and under the auspices of the US Marine Corps. The OSS (which was the precursor to the CIA) had no affiliation with the program. (pg 217- 218, Strategic Intelligence, edited by Loch K. Johnson).
TerryB

Registered:
Posts: 1,638
Reply with quote  #38 
That remark was made by me in earnest. I still support (Redacted) efforts because I think his initial workmanship is sound. His basic approach by transposition is what most coded messages are typically all all about. He's also recognized that the writings of the Zodiac killer contained oddities that tend to throw a monkey wrench into things, hence the anagram approach.

I'm sure that he's noticed that the 340 cipher appears to be structured in quadrants. I think (Redacted) is the right man for the job. Many bright people have applied themselves to the 340 cipher and have come up with some interesting things about it, the webtoy is one of them. I can't help but feel that JT left some pertinent clues to be applied to the 340 cipher. I think that this so-called hypnotic symbol drawing left by Jack can be used in as a tool in working the 340 cipher. It really doesn't fit into anything else regarding the Zodiac era, except for the crosshairs symbol? Notice it has logical statements attached to it. Perhaps using some keywords and/or phrases and the webtoy together, one might make some interesting discoveries?

Jacks hypnossis symbol.jpg


__________________
One small bit of info might make all the difference.
Jupiter

Registered:
Posts: 96
Reply with quote  #39 
I don't know if it is pertinent, but if trying to utilize this drawing in the solves it might be helpful to know that the basis for this type of self- hypnosis was drawn from Anton Chevreul's work in the 18th century. He determined that by using a pendulum, a person could see into their subconscious mind.

"...a client is instructed to concentrate and hold the pendulum over the center of a figure that consists of a + over a circle. While doing this, she is instructed to look either up and down or back and forth over the figure, and to think in the same way, up and down or back and forth. She will most likely find that in a few seconds up to a minute, the pendulum will move in just the direction that she has been thinking, through no conscious effort of her own."
(Hynosis and Hypnotherapy Patter Scripts and Techniques, Calvin D. Banyan)

I believe at one point Dennis mentioned that Jack used a penny tied to a string as the pendulum and dangled it over the circular figure posted above.

The Chevreul's pendulum, in the true sense of its purpose, was not for hypnotizing oneself, but for testing a person's suggestibility toward hypnosis. Meaning that a person who was more open to being hypnotized would be able to get the pendulum to swing the way that they were thinking (up and down or back and forth), while a person who was very resistant to hypnosis would not be able to direct the pendulum in this way. It was a test used by hypnotists/ psychologists to see if they needed to work with the person on breaking down other barriers or fears before attempting hypnosis, or if the person was already amenable to being hypnotized.
TerryB

Registered:
Posts: 1,638
Reply with quote  #40 
That's cool, I didn't know that.

Quite awhile ago I did noticed that the 340 cypher structure appears to imply that it's laid out in quadrants.
On this hypnotic circle diagram, I can't help but notice the peculiar positions of the arrows on the circles, the first outer circle/quadrant  doesn't have an arrow on it. The second and third quadrant have 2ea, yet the fourth has only one arrow.  The inner has 1ea per quadrant. Maybe it means nothing with respect to the 340 cipher, yet maybe it does? I have only a primary understanding about celestial navigation, for instance; I get the gist of how it works, this diagram seems more relative to that than anything else. So....it may have no bearing on the 340 cipher but then again, it might be key?


There certainly is the art of anagrams puzzles, the Jeopardy game show has had them on the show many times in the past. If only so many words and/or certain statements can be formed by them, or better yet, complete sentences, them I'd have to take such a solve seriously. What I won't readily buy into is the belief that just because Zodiac Jack rigged and wrote them; doesn't mean that I'd buy into them as any kind of a true statement. The Ramsey ransom note has several provable lies in it's text. As a matter of fact, I'd be more inclined to believe that any such solve would be meant to be deceptive. However, if JT knew about MKULTRA back then, then I'd find that interesting, because I tend to think such awareness of that subject is kinda exclusive? But, maybe not?

__________________
One small bit of info might make all the difference.
habituation

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,192
Reply with quote  #41 

It is hard to follow sometimes, and I ask questions when there is skepticism. I still do not fully understand how he interprets or lends to some of the finds what he has deciphered. He admits that the solve is not perfect in its entirety, and he is constantly working on it. Finding something new every time. I’m surprised that they say anything to be honest. I wonder when the messages will stop. They are linear as you stated TerryB, but how many things can you perceive from it is the question.

Yes, Catseye could use some reigning in… I try to get her to be simplistic when proclaiming theories because she does tend to state them to be fact when that is an impossibility to know.

The symbols seem to be a mix depending on what context it is used in. Some Greek, Latin, Map Symbols, Tarranese (I still have to look this up, but I am led to believe it is an actual language made up of symbols that can be interpreted in many ways like, a backwards “D” can be a “C” and “I”, or the Zodiac symbol an “O” and “T” when broken down.)

Yes, the Z32 was treated as an anagram which used map symbols for degrees with the first message giving a location of the bus bomb, seconday message I believe was anagrammed using a Latin symbol and Tarranese approach. I just don’t understand why he chooses to use what approach at what time… I don’t understand these things enough to determine if the approach is even plausible.

I think that due to the Oranchak system, (Redacted) could only work with what came out of the statement with simple English assumptions, and this led to discovery of Jack’s name. Not the other way around. I would suspect that it would take 1,000’s of hours if he attempted to find a place in the 340 where a badly misspelled version of JT’s name would fit so that a coherent message appeared in the top portion no matter how phonically it is spelled/misspelled, it still reads. It reminds me of the old psychology test of giving a person a letter where every word is misspelled with the exception of the first and last letter, but the brain can read it just fine because it is all in context when read, and the brain doesn’t require correct spelling in order to determine what word would naturally come next.

Jupiter, to say that he has forced it is a little suspicious for you to say in that you couldn’t force it in the 340, that is impossible. As for the Z13 anagrammed and pixel removal game, he has said himself that it is subject to what Catseye provided him in conversations with DK where he indicated this was a game that JT used to play with them. Probably something out of the Highlights magazine. As for what we are told about programs in our government, who chooses to believe what books or media when it comes to the down right truth???

Take a hard heavy look at the MKUltra program. I never learned anything about it in my Political Science class while hearing about all the other atrocities the government has perpetrated on its own people. As far as I am concerned we are no better than the Japanese in Unit 731, and I am disgusted to say the least.

Who the hell are these people playing with our lives??? Who the hell attempts to defend them or pretends that anything that you are told is the truth??? The yearly flu seems rightfully in-line with the likes of AIDS, Anthrax, and many other things that before any regular joe can end up with it, our government had it first… Consider how tied up the pharmaceutical companies are with the government. Well hell, consider how many large corporations are all owned by the same individuals controlling major America.

Jupiter, as far as the pendulum goes, unless you can support that the very language written in it was used by these authors, I do not understand why you would cite anything. That would go to say that you know where JT picked up the hypnosis/pendulum process, and just like some of Catseye’s theories, there is no support for it. I find that the words on JT’s pendulum to be quite different from others I have seen where there might be the words, yes or no, but “do not want to know”? And what does the CW/CWI stand for? These are questions that should be supported by your theory in some kind of picture from the book you are citing. Unless their pendulum is identical to JT’s we cannot suppose that it is where JT picked it up from… DK always described it as a hypnosis symbol to me or any other person he was talking to.

TerryB, you hit it on the nose. For JT to have known would suggest one of two things. Either he was active with the CIA or he was one of the knowing/limited knowing participants of the program. By the sounds of it, he was initially a participant, but probably later active with the CIA until 1968-69. Maybe even later… I tend to think that when he left California in 74-75 he did so with a purpose.

See, I draw the line at predisposing what may or may not be a key in this case because they are only theories until something is proven by them. So far, (Redacted) is consistently coming up with messages that are coherent and linear with one another. I am going to look up this character John Faggio[sic] which he claims is also coming up in the 408 or 340 cipher at this point, but he is still working on the message.


__________________
Have a positive and inspirational day!
TerryB

Registered:
Posts: 1,638
Reply with quote  #42 
I've never been out to hurt catseye's feeling. Nanette and I have pretty similar feelings with regard to her. I don't wanna get bogged down with 'flaming', it's generally as waste of time.

I have this to admit: Having been irked by catseye in general is what caused me to examine the Ramsey ransom note to refute her claim that Jack clues were "all over the thing". When I discovered that he loaded the thing up with JT initial elements.... I was floored. But then I wondered, why didn't catseye embellish this fact like she does on so many other things where she goes off on a tangent? That's why I've taken the stance that I have on her.

About the time that I became convinced of the JT initial clues were on the Ramsey ransom note was about the time I was getting sick of the whole business and wanted my life back. The whole thing drew me in once again. I'm here out of a sense of righteous duty.

__________________
One small bit of info might make all the difference.
707Catseye

Registered:
Posts: 45
Reply with quote  #43 
Hypnosis Pendulum CW & CCW is Clockwise & Counter Clockwise. It means something to an observer of the 1 under hypnosis. Why Jon Benet & other non (Redacted) 408 & z32 posts. It is distracting from purpose I came back and others are checking this message board topic.
habituation

Avatar / Picture

Moderator
Registered:
Posts: 1,192
Reply with quote  #44 
Thanks for the clarification Catseye, but the hypnosis symbol was brought up by (Redacted) and is pertinent in this conversation. As for TerryB's reference to the JBR clues it was in explanation of taking your theories in stride. TerryB is correct that you noticed the JT connections before anyone, yet it wasn't highly elaborated upon by you like other theories you have had. If you didn't want to be back then don't. I do not require you to respond to others who have hard feelings about some of your research. I have feelings about other's research and yours as well. It is no big secret, and we are all here to attempt to make some sense out of what is being solved right now. So, TerryB, we all know how you feel, and there is no reason to continue to mention it. It has been said, and beaten with the proverbial dead horse. Get over it, stop mentioning it, and move on to the information at hand.

In the most recent solve by (Redacted), he is coming up with a John Fagio/Faggio [sic] possibly, and the mention of Dow chemicals. I do not understand any connection with this at this juncture, or why the Zodiac would be talking about something that he had never brought up in any communication before this solve. If anyone has any inside information or knowledge of how this might play into the Zodiac era, then please elaborate.

Best I could conclude at this time, is maybe Dow provided the drugs for the MK Ultra program, but I have no information that suggests that.

__________________
Have a positive and inspirational day!
TerryB

Registered:
Posts: 1,638
Reply with quote  #45 
I view all these topics as being related to one another, and in several ways.
__________________
One small bit of info might make all the difference.
Previous Topic | Next Topic
Print
Reply

Easily create a Forum Website with Website Toolbox.