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habituation

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Reply with quote  #16 

Jupiter, you are welcome, I am actually enjoying the engaging conversation. I do see a little better the spots that you are talking about. I do not know what to make of them myself, but I do believe to a certain degree some of the things that Dennis says due to the intricate memories of them. I do believe that JT's hands are much whiter than they should be in comparison even if he has some vitiligo. I think he did do something to his hands aside from that condition.

 

As for the time line that you discussed, we have a death on June 5, 1945 just before JT enters the Navy and sails away to WWII, and then yes he re-enters the same branch in Dec 1945, but as I stated earlier, my grandfather indicated that at that time of service, once you enlisted you were scooped up immediately and sent to Great Lakes, MI, or there abouts for training. I do not know if this was still in effect after WWII ended, but I used to be a groupie at the local Navy recruiting office back in high school. Became good friends with some of the recruiters, and sometimes I cut class, and went there to take a nap. They would take anyone off the street even if you just caught a new rap with LE, and they always gave them time to get their affairs in order, so I think that there is a couple of theories that do not shut JT out of the loop for that Dec. murder IMHO. Also, I posted a hero's time line of service in the same wars, and inside of 6 months, he entered service in Long Beach, CA - was sent to Great Lakes, MI and returned to California after being deployed out at sea, so this time line is very much possible no matter how you shake a stick at it.

 

Also, my Uncle and my cousin were both in the military, and running a muck was something they easily got away with, trust me. If they were as tied down as many would think, they would not have had the chance to get into the trouble they got into in order to deserve a AWOL and dishonorable discharge.

 

The Tim Miller letter was received by TM in September 2005, this is by his own admission to me, and Dennis and Tim went to JT's aunts house last August, and she indicated that JT had been there to visit in Sept. 2005, and this was the last time she saw him. I know that Dennis indicated that JT was with Charles in WA at this time, not him. While Dennis may account for October - December 2005, Dennis told me himself that he had no idea JT had made this visit. Dennis even called me from JT's aunts house to tell me about the discovery of this information.

 

I hope this clears some things up, but hit me back if anything sounds out of this world entirely.

 

 


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Reply with quote  #17 

Nanette, I can see what you’re saying about Jack’s whereabouts in 1945. Have either you or Dennis tried to get complete copies of Jack’s Naval Service record from that time period?  The 1973 National Personnel Records Center fire destroyed 80% of Army and 75% of Air Force records from the time Jack would have been enlisted, but Naval Service records were not harmed and are still available. I would guess that Charles would be in a better position to get the full record because he is a blood relative, but any member of the public can request them.


 I pieced together my timeline from documents on your Photobucket page and through searching online databases like Ancestry.com’s WWII Navy Muster Rolls, Navy Cruise Books, as well as other sites. The July 28, 1945 Naval Training Center San Diego photo is the first documentation of Jack in the Navy. Presumably he was there for basic training and/ or some extended training before becoming a full-fledged Sailor.  I couldn’t find any paperwork showing that Jack went overseas to fight in WWII and with the course of events there I’d think that he didn’t. The war in Europe had already ended in May of 1945. The atomic bombs were dropped on Japan on August 6 and August 9 prompting Japan’s surrender and the ultimate end of WWII on August 15, 1945. Once Germany surrendered in May and Truman had decided that they would use the A-bomb in Japan, they probably wouldn’t have deployed any new troops in early August, knowing that the end of the war was imminent. I think if Jack’s full service record could be obtained, it would tell whether he went overseas during the war or not.  The Discharge Papers from his second enlistment in the Navy (1954- 1955) indicate that he was in Japan that second time around.


The next documentation with a date is his Naval Discharge papers. It shows that Jack was promoted from a CR (Constructionman Recruit- one of the lowest levels of enlisted men) to an S1 (Seaman 1st Class) on 11/25/45. In order to get the promotion, he may have been in some form of additional training after Basic, possibly still at the Naval Training Center in San Diego, in the month(s) preceding the November 1945 promotion. The next date is his entry into Active Service in San Francisco on 12/12/45.


The timeline surely does have gaps, but, in my opinion, all of it seems to put Jack in CA during the last two murders. You may find it interesting, and well worth looking into, that the Naval Station Great Lakes your grandfather mentioned is actually not in Michigan, but in Illinois. http://www.cnic.navy.mil/greatlakes/index.htm.  It’s actually in North Chicago, about 1 hour from Chicago proper. If you could place Jack at this facility through his military records, that could help to support your case by putting Jack in proximity of the murders. This website explains how to request service records.  http://www.archives.gov/st-louis/archival-programs/military-personnel-archival/ompf-archival-requests.html


Thanks for the info on the Miller letter. My info came from a blogging site (missingexploited.com) that works directly with Texas Equusearch in finding missing people. On December 24, 2005, they posted the story about the letter saying that it was sent to Miller 5 months after Robert Abel, a suspect in Laura Miller’s murder, passed away. Abel died in July of 2005, which fits with the letter being received in December. The first story says that KPRC Local 2 did a report about the letter on December 21, 2005 (it was actually the 22nd). In the report, which I found at another site, the 5 months timeline is mentioned. I’d also read a couple of board discussions (officialcoldcaseinvestigations.com is one) from 2009 that place the receipt of the letter in December ’05, so that's why I came to the conclusions I did on that matter. Aside from an interview Tim Miller did about the letter in August of 2006, I'm not familiar with his side of the story.

habituation

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Reply with quote  #18 
Thanks for the heads up on Great Lakes Jupiter, Grandpa is a little hard of hearing and when I asked "Great Lakes, MI" it is entirely possible he hung onto the "Great Lakes" part and dropped the "MI" part while agreeing with me. He does this often...LOL He is so sweet!

When Dennis stated that Flova sold the farm in TX and moved to Chicago, IL in 1944, I was floored. I had already completed the exam on LK, and Dennis thought I was nuts at first because he had no inclination that JT had ever been to IL until he spoke to JT's brother's wife. I was present for the phone call, and it appears that JT frequented the area with Charles/Chuck I believe because this is where the wife met the both of them. Military record or not, I believe that JT had experience with IL from 1944 on.

As for the military record, I researched this area before finding out that JT's mom had actually moved there, and discovered the 1971 fire. I read this on the FBI website, and it indicated the same portion of records destroyed, but JT was naval as you indicated from the start and in the end. This file would have followed JT through his terms of service, and should have came to rest in the Naval records that were not even touched by the fire. Next of kin can request the records and it takes approx. 6 mos. I asked Dennis to have Charles do this, but I guess he never did.

I asked agent Chris Hopkins to research both Flova's whereabouts and JT's records. When I followed up weeks later on JT's files, I was was told that it had burned up in the 71 fire. That is pure BS IMHO....His record would never had been stored in Air Force or Army records. When I followed up about Flova's whereabouts shortly after, I was told by Hopkins that just because JT happened to be in the area and the handwriting was a match didn't mean that I could blame him for the LK crimes. This is the kind of 2 faced responses to good leads that I would get. One second, Hopkins would agree that it was a good avenue, and then when I would try to follow up on his efforts, he would tell me that it couldn't be done. There is a reason they do this!

As for TM, I can only say what I was told by him and Dennis, but I distinctly remember September being the month of question. TM indicated that he received it the 18th or so of September, and Dennis replied that JT was in WA, and there was no way he could have mailed it, but while TM was here we found letters from Charles' girlfriend who lived in the same area as the zipcode it was mailed from in TX, and we thought it could have been mailed to her then sent from inside TX. There were some disturbing drawings, and discussions about disguised handwriting between Charles and Krystal. I remember when TM skipped acrossed them in Dennis' storage shed, he was shocked and had his camera guy Steph Watts video them. It wasn't until Dennis met JT's aunt last August that Dennis was even aware that JT had in fact made another trip to TX in September 2005. The aunt claims that JT was looking for some boxes that he left stored there, but she had discarded them because she figured he would never come back for them. I would be willing to bet that it was evidence that he had planned on giving to Dennis to help solidify his crimes. Alot was going on in 2005 with JT, and I think he was desperate to receive his credit.


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Reply with quote  #19 
TerryB, where did you findout about the system used to tie the garrot? My grandfather is a big string nut. He loves to make all kinds of ties and even does magic tricks with them. Complete crack up I tell you. I will ask him about it if I can find a represenation of it to show him.
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Reply with quote  #20 
Nanette, many people have pointed out the fact that the handle of the so-called garrote was expertly constructed and it showed advanced thinking in the way it was made. I think that leaves out a young perp unless the perp was trained or schooled in the way to make that handle.

In the old and early days of small engines like outboard boat motors and lawn mowers a simple pull rope with a round wood handle were part of the necessary accessory to get them running. Later in the manufacturing of those same type of machines then came with self contained pull cords that retracted back into the engine, certainly by 1950 pull ropes were being phased out.

More on this later.

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Reply with quote  #21 
When I was a kid and mowing lawns for money I'd often use the customers lawn mower, the same of which had  a simple pull rope that you'd wind around a sort of a cup that was part of the engine shaft, it had a groove to accept a knot on the end of the pull cord, the cord would break at the knot and sometimes the handle would break, then you'd tie a rope around a wrench to act as a makeshift handle.

That's what the handle on the so-called garrote seems to most resemble. I can't help but feel that there are technical articles in perhaps Popular Mechanics or Mechanics Illustrated or Better Homes and Gardens or maybe some books on tying cords and knots. That knot alone is very "fanciful" and clever.  That evidence alone should have told LE something.

The reason I use the term "so-called" is based also on what others have said; that being the fact that the device is more a part of a noose than a garrote, it would take too many turns to get that small diameter cord to "tighten up" as some have described, there's no evidence to support that usage of that device. Once that small diameter cord was tightened around her neck it probably didn't release very easily. A very deliberate and brutal assault and murder of this child, the kid was dead by the time the blow was delivered to her skull, there's a lot of evidence that supports that scenario.

I think the so-called garrote is also very much so a "JT 101" thing, it's certainly very much in keeping with what we know about JT's technical prowess. 

I still find it unbelievable that no one had discovered and pointed out the JT initial evidence on the ransom note early on in this investigation, the JT initial evidence dominates that 3 page document.

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Reply with quote  #22 
I wonder what the reason for hitting her in the head after death was meant to say. I am sure it was well known in 1996 that an autopsy would reveal injuries created pre or postmortem. Well, I can tell you that once we get to JBR in my revisit of the cases, I will be examining Nora's phone book for the differences found in the handwriting during Nov. to Dec. 1996.
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Reply with quote  #23 
The girl was already dead because there was very little swelling of the brain and other tissues.

He probably hit her to make sure that she was dead, maybe she could have identified him in a line up. Some say it was because she screamed but that's dicey.

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Reply with quote  #24 
Nanette, I think that everything about the JBR case, the OCCK cases, Amerithrax, I45 killings, Texarcana killings are all Zodiac Jack 101, all of the signature characteristics are there, they have an identical MO. I think the camper murders in Wisconsin were JT 101 too, that was around 1975-77 as I recall. The camper killings were certainly more spurious but since he was near the area and given his penchant for killing....he's still a good suspect in that crime. If it turned out that he did taunt the police or victims families then, as you know, we could declare him strongly as a  prime suspect. The line; "Pray it doesn't snow" in the OCCK case is as you know; is very much so JT101.
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Reply with quote  #25 
That's what makes my crazy about these cases. These elements that scream it is the same person, yet people act like it is too far out for it to be so. They make it sound like Z used an MO that many other serial killers use, and that is simply not the case. The average killer is not out there screaming come catch me if you can. Quite the opposite, they are not sharing their deeds with anyone so they can continue to do what they enjoy.
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Reply with quote  #26 
Nanette, I understand that there have been a few that taunted the victims and  police; like the son of Sam, Manson, Bundy, BTK etc, but as you know the MO characteristics were very different. Certainly all were very f'dup people as was JT but as you know JT was much more systematic, he used more detailed planning, many things were different about the crimes we attribute to him as they compare to those other cases. As you know; none of any of the other crimes we know of have all of these specific and unique characteristics. He was very cocked sure of himself.

BTW, I agree with you about the timing of when JMK came to the forefront of the Ramsey case, his message was just like it was meant to be an addendum to the ransom letter.

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Reply with quote  #27 

DK mentioned to me one time that one of the things that got the FBI looking at JT was because DK mentioned that the crimes were premeditated/premonitioned/predetermined (something to the effect that Z would describe what he was going to do before he did it in some cases, and this is a sign of organization at it's finest. So, what if JT was looking for the new home (without the family) 3-6 mos. in advance of his crimes, and it wasn't nothing more than recon and preparation/killing while appearing and disappearing between events?

One thing seems for sure about JT.... He shows up when things start, and he is definitely gone when things stop! IMHO


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Reply with quote  #28 
That's interesting Nanette, yes...lots of planning went into these crimes and they are exactly what the Zodiac killer said he was planning to do, including and especially the JonBenet Ramsey murder,,,, which show signs of lots of planning and research that had to happen to make it go the way it did.

At this point in time I'm ready to declare that everything about the OCCK case is Zodiac Jack 101 and especially the "Allen letter to Dr Danto". For anyone that doubts this....they need to carefully study all of these cases with an open mind but first read and understand the works of former FBI agent and author John Douglas.

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Reply with quote  #29 
Absolutely everything about the OCCK case is Zodiac Jack 101 and I know that a lot of people are gonna find that claim unbelievable, but those same folks need to compare the other cases listed. They need to  take note of the similarities, then take note of the poetically cross-connected clues, there are far too many of them to be a mere coincidence.

While I take what the killer writes with a grain of salt because he is a proven liar, I do think he reveals some things that might be interpreted as relevant. For example: in the Allen letter to Dr Danto he wrote:

"I am his slave and he owns me whatever he wants almost killed me once. I be only one alive know it's him. Nobody else know"....

.....I could take this to be his way of meaning he damn near got caught in the Paul Stine murder, perhaps he had other close calls but I've never heard of any others except perhaps the Georgette Bauerdorf case several years earlier. He reveals that he is the only one alive that knows it's him. This can be interpreted several ways but in it's basic statement I think he's saying: "he is the only one".

Notice in the transcript of the telephone call he says: "No, it's a bar you stu (unintelligible). He reveals his contempt at this point and really reveals that he is the main perp and is probably acting alone.

Add to that the "Pray it doesn't snow" statement and you have the exact same behavior as the California based Zodiac killer. All things in the OCCK case point to Zodiac Jack, remember the fact that his victims were ones he could easily over-power, then he puts them on display and taunts everybody.

His statement about the Polaroids are a pretty good clue as to what he's been up to as well.

It would make sense if he had a pedophile school teacher or cop that helped him capture these kids but I think that in terms of the murders and the washings of the bodies etc, then being put on display, then subsequent letters, calls and taunting; that is all very much Zodiac Jack 101 and the poetic rhyming/same name clues are the main tie that binds these cases together.


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Reply with quote  #30 
Upon reviewing the evidence in the JonBenet Ramsey murder case, I discovered a better image of the drawing on the victims left hand, it's large loop letter "J" with "cross-hair"  "t" on the right hand side of the large "J", it appears that there is a very small heart drawn on the left hand side of the "J".

The cross-hair is the Zodiac killer sign and the initials are JT, hence JT101.

Don't believe me? GO LOOK!

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