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habituation

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Reply with quote  #46 
Lot's of information has referred to the abduction and dump sites! So, dump is not a bad word to use whether they were laid out or pushed out and left. It is simply a term that is used to describe their endings.

I did read the edition you posted Jupiter, and yes it prompted some new movement with new information being provided, but is not the movement I seen and spoke about.

There are some interesting points that make me think of the Z secret. There were reports that initially indicated that the hairs found on the children were dog related, but this article claims that they were compared to the man in the article and not found to be a match. This tells me that the dog theory was BS if they are knowingly comparing them to a human. Plus, just like the Z history, the only DNA they could obtain can only exclude someone, but never include due to the ambiguity of the source. Basically, they are saying that no one will ever be identified by this source, only excluded. We know with DNA that 1,000,000 or more people could not be excluded from this source which means that there can never be an identification made on this source either. Same sad story as Z, and people wonder why I believe these cases are so closely related. They are destined to ensure that no one can ever be identified...

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #47 
I think the key point about this latest development is; it shows evidence of a pedophile connection, the guy that owned the Pontiac is in jail for raping a young person, a boy as I recall, yet he's been eliminated as source for the hair, this tells me that he associated with another like-minded person. I read it as evidence that there was a cultivation of these like-minded individuals.

In those days the only way those people could be linked up was via child pornography, so the people selling those highly taboo magazines could develop a "customer list." The same goes for the "death images" customers, the porn peddlers of that era sold "death image" magazines "under the counter" the same way they sold child pornography. Prostitution and pornography has always been the one of the many vice products of the mob or organized crime, those same people made a lot of money and they were always eager to infiltrate LE with stooges they can control. Viewed from this perspective you can see why the truth hasn't prevailed in these very related cases.

Death images were used as a tool to control their victims, especially children. I see all of the cases we've explored as being related based on these common elements, this is why for example; I think the Nancy Krebs testimony is very pertinent not only to the JBR case but to all of the cases we've explored, its a common thread. It doesn't matter if there were some discrepancies in her testimony, it matters that she came forward at that point in time and it matters via the fact that she is related to Fleet White.

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habituation

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Reply with quote  #48 
Yes, once again we have a pedophile behind the scenes as a suspect just like so many other cases. It does seem to be the theme here with all of these cases. Go figure!
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Jupiter

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Reply with quote  #49 
According to this article:
http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2012/07/18/dog-hair-also-links-oakland-child-killer-victims/

the dog hairs that were found and these human hairs are not the same samples. The DNA expert who identified the dog hairs did not have these human hairs to examine when she did her testing in 2005.
The dog hairs have not been linked to any vehicle or person. And in this article:
http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/investigations/New-evidence-suggests-Oakland-County-Child-Killer-is-still-alive-not-popular-suspect/-/1719314/15244426/-/43dcs1/-/index.html 

it says that while all the kids had white dog hair on them, the hairs were not from the same dog. 
But apparently these new human hairs are from the same person and have been linked to two of the child victims, as well as to the inside of Arch Edward Sloan's car. The hairs do not match Sloan, so they belong to a second individual. 

I'm not sure what you mean about them never being able to use these hairs  to include someone in the crime due to the ambiguity of the source? Do you mean that LE, were they able to find that second individual that is a DNA match to the hairs, would not be able to convict on this alone because that person could argue that he was in Sloan's car and that's the reason the hairs got on the kids, and not because the second individual committed the crimes themselves?
habituation

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Reply with quote  #50 
The reason why I said that it will never convict anyone is because of this statement made in the most recent article you quoted, "Results of mtDNA testing are significantly less specific than autosomal testing because it cannot isolate a particular person as the donor of the DNA. Through mtDNA testing, it can be said a suspect cannot be eliminated as a potential donor."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120717/METRO02/207170429#ixzz21NiOB2mi

This is pretty much the same statement made in regards to the Z cases which is that the DNA can only exclude someone, so while this test can include as many as 1,000,000 people, it means that it will never make an identification.

The ambiguity statement refers to that 1,000,000 people.

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #51 
There are some interesting things about these reports, the first one being the fact that the human hair was withheld from the last lab involved and only the animal hairs were submitted, why is that? Hmmm. Second to that is the seemingly contradictory way in which the significance of the DNA evidence is reported. But most telling was Coopers last remark about conspiracy theorist trying to weave things to fit, that has been true of Helen Dagner  but that hasn't been true about Nanette and myself, we've told it like it is and how it seems be based on evidence !

UNSUB hairs link two victims and Sloan's car but not from Sloan, Sloan is a convicted pedophile rapist, someone else with the same propensity for children seems to be involved, that evidence alone tends to point to a conspiracy. What are we to think when critical evidence is withheld from the public and especially an old cold case?

Those child victims being held for several days, raped, clothing cleaned, bodies washed  then the bodies boldly put on display with their arms crossed and in open view! Then a call to DR Danto, the message is "Pray it doesn't snow"! Absolutely Zodiac Jack 101 !

Dennis' recent story about that address book just doesn't jibe either, some of that handwriting in it is Zodiac Jack 101 also, coupled with the Animal Shelters, police dept etc, Michigan numbers, 1976 sales receipt and kept by a transient to that area of the country?

What other evidence do you suppose was removed or withheld by LE in Michigan? It's taken public pressure to get LE off their duffs about those cases, I'd say it been pretty arrogant of the prosecutor to have to be sued to release  critical evidence on an old cold case. Now this Cooper say's she's gonna get someone convicted in this case? If the boys were raped, was bodily fluid evidence from the victims preserved ?

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Jupiter

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Reply with quote  #52 
I see what your saying. From reading into this, however, it appears that specificity for mtDNA is actually much higher than you've been told and there have been many cases that have been successfully prosecuted using mtDNA evidence. It's true that, because all individuals within a maternal line have the same mtDNA profile, you can technically only use mtDNA to exclude someone as a donor. However, because there are thousands of mtDNA types and the relative frequency of any particular type is rather low, in most cases you can use mtDNA to exclude 99% of the population and in many cases, as much as 99.9% of the population can be excluded as the donor of a sample. 
(I stole that from http://www.forensicmag.com/article/mitochondrial-dna-examination-cold-case-crime-scene-hairs?page=0,1).
A national mtDNA population database (called SWGDAM) is kept by LE.

I don't think it'd be wise of any prosecutor to base a case solely on DNA (mitochondrial or autosomal), but if they have other evidence, in addition to the ability to not be able to exclude their suspect when 99.9% of the rest of the population can be excluded, then it should help to make their case a little stronger. Whether it helps in this case, with whatever suspect they have in mind (and it appears they are honing in on someone from the articles I've been reading) remains to be seen.

TerryB

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Reply with quote  #53 
Was or wasn't bodily fluid evidence preserved? It would only stand to reason that such fluids would be preserved.

All types and qualities of DNA evidence is statistically applied. In this case is eliminates Sloan as the donor of the hair in question, plain and simple, that means someone else was the donor that links two victims and Sloan's car.

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habituation

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Reply with quote  #54 

Well, hopefully they are honing in on something, but it seems futile if they are merely waiting for people to come forward with evidence. This is why I provided some.

In speaking with these family members, I find that they are treated exactly as DK has been treated. People bashing them, calling them liars and freaks, making up stories about them, and putting on a full hate campaign to make them look crazy. This tells me that there are similar forces preventing them from making the necessary connections just as is happening in the Z cases. It is a shame!


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #55 
Well Nanette, that kind of invalidation of people concerned with justice is a sure sign of racketeering, the JBR case shows the same signs of racketeering; by that I mean treating the family members with contempt, false innuendo and falsification of information about the case. It's all provable in an honest court of law.

If there are any handwritten documents in the OCCK case, I'd like to examine them.

I have to say..... the textual content of the TV letters is totally in keeping with what I've come to expect from Zodiac Jack, they fit all of my prime suspicions of what the Zodiac killer was all about. It's a common thread throughout  all of the crimes we attribute to Zodiac Jack.

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #56 
I went looking on the web for the Allen letter but couldn't find it, perhaps Danto held it as Dr/patient privacy etc?

I took a look a Topix on both the OCCK and JBR case threads and the same bunch of RDI trolls dominate those threads with lies about these two cases, it's another sure sign of racketeering IMO.

Yes Nanette, the cross-connected clues are all there and are Zodiac Jack 101 and the "Allen" clue is prominent among them. Several of the victims family member charge LE with stonewalling in those cases, I agree that there has been stonewalling by LE.

If the Allen letter to Dr. Danto is for real and I think it is; I'll bet it was  written by Jack.

The way Ted Lamborgine turned down the deal offered him is also a sure sign of racketeering, he probably knew that if he did co-operate with LE that he would have been killed and probably via a faked suicide.

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habituation

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Reply with quote  #57 
Here's what I have from Timothy Kings sister:

http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/NanetteB_2009/Compilation%20of%20Killers/sc00048475.jpg

http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/NanetteB_2009/Compilation%20of%20Killers/sc0004ed5e.jpg

http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/NanetteB_2009/Compilation%20of%20Killers/sc0004cfb2.jpg

http://i948.photobucket.com/albums/ad327/NanetteB_2009/Compilation%20of%20Killers/sc0004b18b.jpg

Note in the letter from the supposed roommate:

It was mailed and released by the newspaper in 9-77, six months after the killings stopped. In my mind this is JT101 because his taunts went on well after it appeared that he stopped killing. Allen claims that he wants to stop his roommate, but never makes the appt with Danto. Again, JT 101 - Please stop me or I can't control myself. I and TK's sister are not sure about the rest of the letter as you can see that it is just portions that have been published. I tried to get this letter on a FOIA request thru TK's sister, but LE didn't even so much as call me back after checking in with me. I have that investigators name in my notes, and all of this will eventually make this board.

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #58 
Nanette, the pressure need to be kept up on them to release that letter, yes...it does sound like Zodiac Jack 101, for one thing; I noticed the use of the word "slave". There is no reasonable justification for them to withhold that letter, especially that letter, most definitely they've been stonewalling the progress of this case.

As you know.... the Zodiac letters were published in the hopes that someone would recognize the killers handwriting. The Oakland county authorities have no right to withhold that letter. Perhaps they were and are scared that someone would have recognized the handwriting as being the same as the Zodiac killer's....and a long time ago, justice delayed is justice denied. Dammit!

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habituation

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Reply with quote  #59 

I agree with you TerryB, and the "slave" statement, coupled with "snow" (DL has always been attributed to Z, and JT moved from this area to MN, so the next clue tying in the last crimes is so expected), plus the "Allen" as a roommate after bragging that he gave a ride to this person who was a suspect for Z.

Add to that this family is being treated exactly the way DK has been treated when it comes to Z, and we have the makings of people who really aren't trying to follow up on any leads or resolve these cases in any manner.

Something makes me think that the letter was typed, but an examination on the typing can be done, and I have completed these very types of exams in more than one case. You talk/write like you type....Go figure! We have the Cheri Jo Bates letter of "Confession" that ties him to BD, and many more. This should be sufficient in my mine to determine if the writing is the same or similar.


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #60 
Nanette, I can't help but think that JT covered for the actual killer of Cheri Jo Bates with the writings and the taunts to her father, I say this because of how sloppy the murder was, yeah.... there was planning in that the killer disabled her car but the actual murder wasn't like all of the others because she put up a fight. I also think the rh sign off meant something, perhaps they are the initials of the actual killer. The Bates documents do have the JT initial clues and certainly the handwriting is JT's but I think perhaps rh was the killer. 
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