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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #46 
Too many 'Hoover' references to be a coincidence. Here's one.012447_pg2.jpg 

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Reply with quote  #47 
Is Clyde the same person that was with JT in the 1963 GE Picture of JT's invention for the San Jose Nuclear Plant?
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Reply with quote  #48 
Many of the cases that we investigate indicate a connection to others, and we should look at these cases and how they play into other crimes of this kind. Some were meant to be just a crime, and others were meant to incriminate others so as to sidetrack what they had going on in reality. These cases to distract were to cause others to distract what they really had going on in life!!!
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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #49 
It was a different Clyde. The point is, is that the then head of the FBI was compromised and the syndicate (especially Meyer Lansky) had the 'goods' on him.

You must have noticed that the last people to harbor E.Short had a last name of French and the next related murder was Dorothy French. These same type of things happened to other victims that were also brutally murdered, murdered deliberately by someone that had the same nerve that the murderer of Paul Stine. What they didn't seem to share were the taunting calls and letters with the same clues. Perhaps they did and that info. was suppressed ?

BTW, how much flack do you think Kaufman has taken for claiming the BD crime as a JT crime? That blurry picture he's presented could easily have been staged. It takes lots of work to prove or disprove it as a JT crime. Yes, yes, you and I both know that it was a JT crime but I like to have more than just the handwriting and other written characteristics to advance this study, it's what the critics are gonna demand.

I also point out the foibles related to the killers use of a felt tip pen and declaring a handwriting match, you know what your expert/colleagues are gonna say about that in general. I know that you are correct in your workmanship and I point out that there are an abundance of documents to prove a match with. JT exemplars, while not as abundant are sufficient.

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Reply with quote  #50 
BD lived with Elvera French and her daughter Dorothy French. Is this the same Dorothy French that was murdered? Along with Bauerdorf who was friends with BD and French I believe???

Both of us have been put through the wringer for connecting any of the crimes, but I do not understand what you mean by "foibles" in regards to the felt tip pen and handwriting match. Just because a felt tip pen was used doesn't mean that an identification can't be made. Far from it... I just handled a work related case where the pen used was a fine tip sharpee. It was apparent given the right suspect that I would make an identification. There were 7 suspects given to me, and only one matched so significantly that there was no denying who did it!

I have sufficient JT exemplars for sure... That man saved everything! I had over 100 exemplars from JT, and I have just organized the 2560 digital files and am now date organizing so as to complete a timeline of JT's whereabouts based on his documentation and not someone's hearsay. It will be completed shortly, and then I will mix in the data from each crime spree to ensure nothing overlaps or is in question.


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #51 
I might have the first name wrong of the woman with the last name French? I think the victim's name was Jeanne French. Sorry, my bad.

It's not me that thinks there's a problem with the hand printing and handwriting matching up. I just remember reading that in court, the handwriting expert witnesses use terms like "probably" and "probably not" when testifying vs a conclusive match. This is pointed out in the Julie Carnes summary judgement in the Wolf vs Ramsey lawsuit. I've read this same terminology is what they allow in court.

It's good that you've got that many JT samples.

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Reply with quote  #52 
I think Jeanne French is correct as well, but I will be visiting this era shortly in JT's belongings. First I have to wrap up some of the investigative thoughts and tasks for LK's thread, and then Texarkana, Florida, and then back to California for BD. Be here soon!!!

I don't know where you heard that we can only make probable conclusions. I mean think about it... How scientific could handwriting be if we could only say maybe there is or isn't a chance of execution by a particular individual??? I have flat out called handwriting forgery in court, and when the opposing counsel objected to my reference of a forgery, the judge overruled indicating that I was the only person in the court room qualified to call anything a forgery because it is my opinion based on my examination. I have not seen a reason to qualify an opinion but maybe 2-3 in over 280 cases. It should be very rare that a document examiner can not make up their mind, and if they can't it's because they are protecting their butts because they are a hired gun...


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #53 
Perhaps that's one of those things referred to as Jurisprudence? I'm going by the very limited amount that I've read on that subject. Check out the Judge Julie Carnes summary judgement in the Wolf vs Ramsey case, it's posted on line. If I recall correctly, she made several points regarding that business.
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Reply with quote  #54 
Perhaps it's one of those things where the Judge just didn't understand handwriting or review the points given by both sides fairly... So far, those without the desire to do their jobs accurately or the knowledge to do so, have made decisions that were not accurate and judgments that aren't given into the science. TerryB, you have witnessed the JT nuances a hundred times I bet in all these cases, it's pretty hard to miss IMO. If a judge refuses to look at the writing to confirm for themselves that they see them, then they will probably side against you. Especially when you are up against 30 year veterans of law enforcement and government employment. It doesn't matter what the handwriting says, it usually comes down to the good ole boy system in the court room sometimes. I find it saddening to even be able to say that, but it has been the blatant truth in at least 3 cases that I went to trial on. Out of 16 that is, and only 3 where I saw the justice system fail. Partly because a document examiner with that impressive CV told the judge a lie, and the other indiscretions of a judge, or the attorney who failed to complete his job. That is why I chose not to finish school to become an attorney. The only way to get people justice is to stand behind your opinion. It is or it is not someone's handwriting, and there is no in between. Sloppy misrepresentations of the actuality of handwriting gives grey areas where people like the judge you speak of the ability to deem handwriting less than a science. This I would like to see changed, and I won't be scared away by telling the truth or what I see on this journey.
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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #55 
Judge Julie Carnes explained in great detail why she rejected a couple of so-called handwriting experts and rightfully so. That's what I'm talking about. Both said Patsy  wrote the ransom note, both were full of crap, both were stooges. She attacked and rejected them in many very specific ways. Cindi Wong was one of them, I'd have to go back and look up the name of the other one. There may have been a couple more phoney ones that she addressed as well. I think the other guy was named Leibman(sp).
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Reply with quote  #56 
Oh, I gotcha... She should have slammed them then. Whenever you have someone who has done any career for long enough of a time, you can bet that they have learned all the ways they can use their experience to dis-inform or shed doubt. This is how you create a money making society of adversarial opponents. I have never heard to date where a document examiner testifies to the fact that their opposing doc examiner was a personal friend or colleague with a great reputation for telling the truth, and being correct in their opinions. Wouldn't that be a hoot? That would lend to someone knowing they were wrong, and a hired gun. I know plenty of attorneys and judges that are friends and cordial outside of the court. Why such animosity in this industry??? Yes, there were many phonies involved in rendering an opinion in this case, and what did they hope to achieve??? To create more disbelief in a very old science...
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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #57 
Carnes was very specific about the handwriting business, she explained her reasoning in great detail, she made all of the steps necessary to qualify her reasoning.
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Reply with quote  #58 
Well then it sounds like she understands the problem with this industry just as I do. People are not always ethical and moral when it comes to making money or a name for themselves.
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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #59 
This is just one of many examples of Zodiac Jack clues found on the Black Dahlia documents:NOTE2JT.JPG 
I tend to think that at the time that he wrote this that he figured that he was taking a big chance by leaving his initials prominently displayed on this card. The Black Dahlia case is loaded with JT clues. You can see how Turning resembles Tarrance, spelled phonetically:Turinc, like Too-rinse. Get it?


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #60 
Nanette, the good news is that Steve Hodel is and has been open to changing his views of some of the evidence. The FAQ section of his web site has a lot of interesting documents on it. For the most part I believe he's been on the right track. For instance; he's backed off of his claim that one of the two photos he has is of E.Short. I'm very certain the second photo is also not of E.Short, the nose is way wrong, so is the shape of the head.

Based on the evidence, it is highly possible that his father was an illegal abortion doctor. This would have left his father wide open for extortion.

In the Zodiac case and based on the fact that Gareth Penn 'took the bait' in wrongfully naming Professor Michael O'Hare as the Zodiac killer, it's also likely that Dr George Hodel was being set up as a fall guy by Zodiac Jack (and possible/likely associates). 

While I still have yet to read Steve's books, I don't read his dad as being as nasty as the killer of E.Short was. I read his dad as being perhaps a pedophile but mainly a lover, not a destroyer.

His dad drove a Packard in those days, Parkard's were huge automobiles, Ford's were small automobiles. The difference in the two could be easily told from a block away. In those days, it was common knowledge what a Packard looked like, they were a status symbol. Packard's had a very vertical grill that resembled the style of cars from the 1920's. Ford had a slanted grill that wasn't rectangular shaped as was the Parkard grill.

Furthermore; Jean Spangler was last seen arguing in the company of two of former mobster Mickey Cohen's hoods. The report's that I've seen claim that all three of these people were never seen again. Several attempt were made on Mickey Cohen's life.

So far; Steve Hodel's documents seem to be missing the necessary scrutiny needed to compare them to the Zodiac killer documents. Zodiac killer documents are ripe with JT clues as are all of the other cases.

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