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habituation

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Reply with quote  #46 
They are written too fluidly to be a forgery, so don't let them fool you with that junk. I will have to do a complete exam on them now due to the break up in the DK relationship, but that is ok. I did include some of the letters in one of my exams, but not in entirety. Ahhh, the work that this case needs is gynormous.....
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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #47 
Well, only a ratdog like jbradfield666 would make such a statement like he did about your work, I wanted to give you an opportunity to defend yourself against his warrant-less attack.

Even Dennis accused him of sounding like Tom Voigt, after that he's been sour grapes.

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habituation

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Reply with quote  #48 
Here's the great thing TerryB, Just by DK calling him out and saying he was TV, that is more than plenty for me because when it comes to the Z cases, TV is like what I call, "Portola." AKA "shi-"! It works in so many ways, but all means the same thing, and no one really knows what you are saying.

Kind of like, "that's Portola," when LE believes they are doing all they can do to see these cases come to a close.

Love how that works....

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #49 
I see that DK's web page name has been changed, did you notice that Nanette?

Portola.....I like that!


Voigt made a connection on his site between the Red Phantom and an old silent horror film, that bolsters the point that the Zodiac killer was an older person at the time of the Zodiac killings, relatively speaking. I wonder how he grapples with the fact that all of the Zodiac killer picture cards have a "Jack" clue, apparently he doesn't know Jack Portola, or he won't admit to it.

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habituation

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Reply with quote  #50 
Interesting that Portola is mentioned here TerryB, because the last known address for the owner of the phone book from MI, was Portola, CA, and I have a different meaning for Portola which Dennis is aware of, and that's "SHI-". It's a long story, but I find it intriguing aside from the fact that Dennis lost the URL earlier this year before he moved in with catseye. She called me to tell me that it was down and needed to be paid for, but before anyone could do anything about it, it was up for auction, "therealzodiackiller.com." So, no wonder Dennis needed to get a new name.

Also, I don't have a clue who Jack Portola is, so maybe you can elaborate!

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #51 
Last thing first: I meant it to mean Jack Shi*, get it?
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Reply with quote  #52 
LOL, I guess I shared that with you, didn't I, TerryB. That too is priceless... Jack Portola will need to be my phrase for the week, and no one is the wiser!

This new person claiming LE is involved may have just lit the fire I needed under my butt to get the new exam going on this. I have cleaned the room out for the 3rd time since I have been out of school, and it seems to be the catchall for everything lately. I got it cleaned once again, and found some not so new, but long forgot about notes from the beginning of this case. I am feeling a new groove and desire to revisit the letters, finally.

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habituation

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Reply with quote  #53 
I have started going through the foot and a half of notes that I have. It looks like I will need to sort all of it before starting any new reports, but new stuff is on it's way! Finally>>>>
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habituation

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Reply with quote  #54 
I thought these pics would be perfect for this thread! This pen was found in JT's belongings, and would appear to be the type of device that the Zodiac liked to use.


Be back with more...

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habituation

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Reply with quote  #55 
Sorry to have been absent for so long, but I am working on a review of the handwriting, graphology of JT's handwriting, and something special I think all will be especially interested in. Due to the sensitive nature of it, I am keeping hush hush. But, after the results are in, I will have a whole bunch to share. I have been working on a case side by side with a document examiner who has already confirmed (concurred with my opinion) my findings. This will prove to be the best confirmation of my work ever...
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habituation

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Reply with quote  #56 

I have copied a curriculum for forensics in handwriting that is available by David A. Katz in bold, pt. 14, Calibri body while making my notation in regular, pt.11, Times New Roman to make my points. Nanette Barto

Here is an article written by a Professor, of forensics since 1993, on handwriting examination. I thought that it would be really interesting to pit his recommendations for handwriting procedures against my procedures on this case, and to include the huge fallacy "highly probably or strong probability" that weighs the need for originals in order to make an identification, or a qualified opinion that must be used. Nanette Barto

Handwriting Analysis

© 2005, 2004, 2002, 1993 by David A. Katz. All rights reserved.

 

            Handwriting is unique to each individual. Although some peoples’ handwriting may have similar styles and characteristics in common, acquired when these people learned to write by copying letters and words, they tend to take on individual styles with age. Also, as a person ages, their handwriting will show additional changes.

                Generally, one cannot determine the age or sex of a suspect or whether they are left-handed or right-handed from a normal writing sample. Certain types of flourishes and embellishments in writing styles and detailed examination of an original document my give hints at some of some of these characteristics.

(I had indicated as stated by the ASTM guidelines, that handedness is not a characteristic that is easily detected and is not a necessity when making an identification. Nanette Barto)

                In handwriting analysis, one should look for similarities in the shapes, styles, alignment, and spacing of letters.

Materials:

Documents to be examined

Ruler

Protractor

Magnifying lenses

Safety Precautions:

There are no safety hazards with this procedure.

Procedure:

Never work with original documents. Always make copies to work with.

(I understand preservation of the evidence, and fully agree with the above statement. So, here is my plight. If the only reason to examine the original is for pen pressure and clarity of stroke direction, and then everything else is determined from a copy, then I have done exactly that. With no need to determine pen pressure – due to type of instrument used, and no need to determine stroke direction – due to the writing being in print and a copy would not conceal stroke directions, then all that is necessary to make a determination/identification on the handwriting is copies of the questioned documents and independent handwriting samples. I  have both in this case seeing that you are instructed to conduct your exam from a copy to begin with.) P.S. a copy is sufficient, but a high resolution scan is bliss…. Many of these documents are just that, whether b/w or color. Nanette Barto

                Original documents must be maintained for evidence. Handle original documents as little as possible. Keep them protected in archival sleeves or folders. Any testing for fingerprints must be done after the handwriting and document analysis.

            When requesting writings by a subject, they should be given voluntarily. Dictate the text, never show the subject the original document. Make sure that the subject is comfortable and is using the same type of paper and writing instrument. If other samples of the suspect’s handwriting are available use them for additional comparison.

(All samples from Jack Tarrance are independent from the Zodiac case, so are to be considered natural handwriting within natural variation. Nanette Barto)

Characteristics of Handwriting:

1.     Examine the spacing between letters and words. Use a ruler to measure typical spacing.

(The spacing is absolutely consistent and has been proven in an Excel presentation that I will put up here soon, or can be found on my Photobucket site)

2.     Examine the relative height, width, and size of letters. Use a ruler to measure these for comparison.

(This has also been established in the PowerPoint presentation)

3.     Examine pen lifts and separations. Some letters and combinations will be continuous while others may not be connected. Look at the beginning and ending strokes of words and letters and any connecting strokes.

(Not applicable due to the lack of connectedness with the exception of one word “with” by Zodiac, and this construction was identical to Jack Tarrance’s found in the Excel Spreadsheet of spacing and abbreviations. I will be putting this up soon.) Nanette Barto

4.     Are there any unusual letter formations such as loops and curls or a mixture of cursive and printing of letters?

(Loops found in the “o”, four strokes found in the “n”, the tick mark that exits the stem of the “d”, these are all similar letter formations found between Zodiac and Jack Tarrance.) Nanette Barto

5.     Is there any shading of letters due to uneven pressure applied in writing?

N/A – Nanette Barto

6.     Examine the slant of the letters. Do they slant left, right, or not at all? Are the slants consistent throughout the writing sample? Measure the angles of slant using a protractor.

(Slant is an identical right to hard right slant that is consistently seen in both the Zodiac and Jack Tarrance writings.) Nanette Barto

7.     Examine the baseline habits. Are the words and letters on the baseline or are they above and below. A ruler will be helpful in determining this.

(N/A – There is normally unlined paper found in the Zodiac case) Nanette Barto

8.     Look for flourishes and embellishments. Using small circles to dot i’s or for periods, loops on capital letters or ending letters, etc. Are there any unusual letter formations?

(This section is supported in both Zodiac and Jack Tarrance writings and can be found in the PowerPoint presentation on Youtube or Photobucket.) Nanette Barto

9.     Look at the placement of diacritics. Are the i’s dotted and t’s crossed? Individuals tend to dot i’s and cross t’s in unique fashions.

(Actually, there are no diacritics in the English language as the i dot and t bars if removed do not change the sound the letter makes as it does with a French or other foreign letter/phonemes, so I believe that this is N/A; however, if we are to consider i dots and t bars to be diacritics depending on how they are executed then we have these similarities in common between Zodiac and Jack Tarrance as well.) Nanette Barto

Characteristics of Forged Documents:

            Writing in forged documents tends to be slowly written and will show a lack of individuality.

(This statement is one of the reason I rule out the necessity for the originals in order to determine speed and fluidity. It is common knowledge that much of the Zodiac’s writing is disguised handwriting thus being slowly written with no individuality means no fluidity or speed.) Nanette Barto

            Letters tend to have an unnatural appearance as if the forger was drawing the letters. This makes letters inconsistent in the document, shows unnatural starts and stops and a general lack of rhythm to the writing. Any mistakes will show a careful correction. Signatures will be identical.

Disguised Writing:

            If a suspect attempts to disguise their writing, they will generally exhibit inconsistent slant and letter formations with a major change in the size of their letters. Capital letters will be different and they often will use block lettering. As they write, there will be a lack of rhythm, irregular spacing, and unnatural starts and stops. Occasionally they will add excessive ornamentation. Some individuals will try to write with the wrong hand.

(This is very apparent in the writing of the Zodiac as shown in the PowerPoint presentation found on Youtube or Photobucket. There is a huge variation in the form indicating that it is not the natural writing of the author. For this reason, I have put these letters together in a display to help show what appears to be more disguised than natural for an easier identification of the true versus disguised writing.) Nanette Barto

            If an independent writing sample is available, it should be used for comparison.

(We have over a hundred independent handwriting samples of Jack Tarrance and more than fulfill this requirement for natural handwriting.) Nanette Barto

            In addition to normal handwriting analysis, as discussed previously, methods can be used to detect handwriting, even when the writing has been obliterated. For example, using infrared film or infrared microscopy, some obliterated writing can be deciphered.

            Bleaching ink on a document is a method that can be used to alter it, as in the bank check shown below. Ultraviolet light can be used to detect this if the paper, ink, or bleach has any fluorescent properties.

            Analysis of papers can also be used to compare documents, such as a ransom note. Papers can be compared to those in a home or business to ascertain the source and, in some cases, the manufacturer. The following chart shows the elemental analysis of different colored papers.

The entire article can be found at: http://www.chymist.com/HANDWRITING%20ANALYSIS.pdf
There are exercises and handwriting samples to describe the areas that are spoken about in this post for an easy reference to the meanings if you are a lay person, or if you would like to try your hand at handwriting examination. Nanette Barto


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Jupiter

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Reply with quote  #57 
I tried to post this reply in the In time of Universal Deceit thread, but that thread is now locked, so I am posting it here.

Nanette, I certainly can understand why you may be leery of people as you have been unfairly attacked a number of times both here and on Kaufman's board. Since I recognize the unfairness of that, I have made a pointed effort to have a dialogue with you that is both respectful and honest. As such, I was surprised by your comment:
Quote:
Even Jupiter, in all their glory,


I know of no other way to interpret that, other than derogatory in nature.
 
I have addressed the handwriting with you. Please understand that I am not dismissive of your handwriting analysis. I've read all of your reports and I watched all of your videos on YouTube. I also read all of Hannah McFarland's reports. Your report and McFarland's are actually quite similar in some aspects, including letter formation, word formation, word spacing, letter size, etc. The main difference being that you indicate Jack is the author and she indicates George Hodel. McFarland's opinion is not expressed, on paper, with 100% certainty only because in her interpretation of the guidelines she feels she's not allowed to express 100% certainty because she was not able to examine original Zodiac, etc. documents. She still believes Hodel to be the author, just as you believe it is Jack. Since there are two entirely disparate opinions by two qualified document examiners (I assume that you will allow for the fact that Ms. McFarland is qualified), it didn't seem to make much sense to me to address the handwriting piece by piece. It would accomplish nothing other than for you to say- look how this, this, and this are similar, and for me to say, look how McFarland said this, this, and this are similar. That kind of back and forth isn't likely to yield any productive discussion and doesn't do anything to move any of the cases forward.
I've also expressed why I feel that, while based in science, there is an inescapable human factor to handwriting analysis and provided evidence that many in law enforcement and the forensic fields, including other handwriting analysts, believe it, too, and are working to allay that problem. I know that you disagree, and as you saw, I didn't belabor the point and continue trying to get you to see things "my way" because I've no interest in forcing my opinions on anyone. I was asked about it, and I answered.

As far as other evidence, I certainly do have my opinions on that, too, and if there is something specific you want me to address, I'd be happy to do so. But, since this is a JT is Z driven board, I tend to keep those opinions to myself unless otherwise asked, because I see no point in trying to dissuade you from your course.
habituation

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Reply with quote  #58 

Jupiter, here is my problem, you say that you only believe the evidence and are only persuaded by that. It does behoove you to cover the handwriting letter by letter with me if you truly believe JT is not the suspect. Doing so would allow you to either make an informed decision to move on from this board with the satisfaction that he is not, or come to the conclusion that the handwriting supports he is and continue to work in a forward direction on this case, so I ask you 2 questions:

1. Do you believe that LK, BD, and Z is connected as McFarland and I have stated?

2. Do you believe that the Z killer was 70 years old during the murders?

Your answers will certainly give me some insight to your reasons for being here... The defense only has to shed a shadow of doubt to be effective!


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #59 
I can see for my own satisfaction that Hodel's handwriting isn't even close to the Zodiac documents, not one bit close. So...McFarland is full of it as is Hodel jr.  You can find whores in any kind of business.

Jupiter feigns thin skin when criticized, it's not like she's using her own name here. Basically Jupiter is writing off your work Nanette, I don't think that we are that hard up for company to put up with her pseudo-polite invalidation's.

She knows damn good and well that Jack Tarrance's handwriting matched the Zodiac killer and other mentioned documents.

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Jupiter

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Reply with quote  #60 
Nanette- 
I actually feel that you have gone through the handwriting letter by letter with me, since I watched all of your videos on the matter. However, I'm absolutely up for you doing so on this board, if that's something you want to engage in. I will want to find McFarland's report so I can discuss that with you, as well, to go through the similarities and differences. If I can't find it online I'll have to make a trip to the library on Friday for Hodel's books again.

I do have one caveat to this exercise, though. I will not engage in any conversation with TerryB. I've already told him as such. I think that his statement in calling McFarland, someone whom he does not know and whose work he is not familiar with, a whore, is a good illustration of why I will not deal any further with him. So, if he chooses to participate in this discussion, I will be ignoring his comments. If there is something he wants to know that you are also curious about, I will need for you to re-state it so that I can be sure I address it. 

In answer to your questions-
No, I don't believe that the Black Dahlia, Lipstick Killer, and Zodiac murders are related.

No, I don't believe that the Zodiac was 70 yrs old at the time of his crimes.

As far as my reason for being here, I think I may have stated that along the way somewhere. I am fascinated by how serial killers come into being, and particularly Z because of the costume, letters, and ciphers. I'm also fascinated by individuals that have their own Person of Interest, because I, as yet, don't have one. Yours is not the only Z board that I follow and I'm always interested in how individuals go about putting together the case against their suspect. 
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