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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #1 
The first thing that anyone dealing with the JonBenet Ramsey murder needs to recognize is that fact that it was a very vicious and brutal murder, that little girl was technically dead when the massive blow was delivered to the back of her head. There is evidence that she suffered through a series of two strangulation's, the second one was intended to kill her, the hemorrhaging of the skin and other evidence clearly demonstrate that as a fact. Probably during the course of the first strangulation her hymen was viciously ruptured with the broken end of a artist type paint brush.There are many other details about the murder itself that I won't go into at this  time.

The second thing for anyone that carefully studies this case to recognize is the vicious and brutal verbiage in the three page ransom letter.

Both Lou Smit and former FBI profiler John Douglas;
two of the most highly regarded detectives in the country have said an intruder murdered the little girl, I highly recommend others  review their work. I also recommend others to read some of John Douglas' books like "Mind Hunter" and " The Cases That Haunt Us"

Regarding the works of John Douglas; I have a couple of minor differences with a couple of his statements and those differences have to do with the age of his suspects, I point out that the killer was emotionally immature making him seem much younger, secondly in the Zodiac case I think the documents point to a person that was from the era of B grade movies put out by RKO and Republic Pictures, for example the use of statements like "This is the Zodiac speaking" and "I shall", "you will", the same goes for the JBR ransom letter because very similar phrases and tone were used in it, like; "Follow our instructions" There were other terms the Zodiac killer used that pointed to an earlier era like; "how does it feel to have your nose rubbed in your boo-boos, boo-boos being a very dated expression. Or "fiddle and fart around", that phrase is said to come from around Texas as I recall.

There's more much more, this was a very sophisticated crime.
 I edited to add this: In fact, the phoney Zodiac persona was fashioned after the old movie, 'Charlie Chan at Treasure Island'.
[Added: This thread has several annotated pictures and documents around page 18 or so, please inspect all of these items before doing anything else.]

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Reply with quote  #2 
I addressed the "fiddle and fart" around statement on Kaufman's board a few years back.

It is not unique to Texas...

My own father used it all the time....

We are from Canada...

He has never been to Texas...

NEXT!
TerryB

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Reply with quote  #3 
Yeah, maybe so, I had heard that phrase being used several years ago, I just repeated what someone else said on Kaufman's board.

In recent times people; esp men have used the phrase "and the whole nine yards" but most people don't realize that that phrase comes from the cement truck business, meaning that most cement trucks have a maximum capacity of 9 cubic yards of cement, I first heard that phrase used 30 years ago, where it started from I don't know.


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #4 
Here is something I just came across last night on a long Google search, I can't be certain that it was posted on a blog way back in the year 2000 but maybe so, the guy does a good job in his Zodiac Killer =JBR killer summary except I firmly believe the ransom letter was penned before the actual murder, I'll make my argument about that later on.
Quote:
Mhoward:

Thank you for asking!!

You must have not been here back in the summer. I believe that the handwriting on the ransom note left in the Ramsey home by an intruder matches the handwriting of Zodiac. It's 30-ish years later and the ransom note handwriting is shaky, but the formation of the letters is mostly a match to my eye. I'm not a handwriting expert and the regulars on this board gave me a lot of grief for even thinking this, but I'm using my EYES, not my lilmited power of deductive reasoning.

When I try to reason it out, IF Z killed JonBenet Ramsey, he would have been advanced in years when he did so. But taking on a six year old girl with rope and a bash to the right side of her skull would be possible for a man in his 60's or 70's. He'd be too old to take on couples in the prime of their lives, but a child who LOOKED like an adult when she performed in pagents would be a perfect target.

He would have had the opportunity to see her twitch and squirm (Zodiac's raison d'etre) as she died. Z said he would/did kill by rope but we know of no cases when he did. JonBenet's killer wrote a LONG ransom note which makes little or no sense if you isolate the case, because she was probably already dead when he sat down to write it. I think it takes some kind of weird balls to remain in someone else's house to take the time to write a three page note...the same kind of weird balls it took to write on Bryan Hartnell's car door in a public place. He HAD to write!

What makes sense to me in the Ramsey case is to think of it as a Zodiac killing. THEN it becomes clearer why the ransom note was left: Zodiac WANTED to be HEARD so it seems to be that he was compelled to write after his known killings and on other occasions when he hadn't killed anyone, as far as we know. The ransom note carries the same taunting tone, the same type of misspellings, the references to movies, a "cipher" in the signature, the same auditory psycholinguistic opening ("Listen carefully!" as compared to "This is the Zodiac speaking"--both being the auditory sensory mode), about the same length, the same spacing between words, similar margins, similar pressure, similar size, similar choice of writing instrument, and the letter formations are fascinating to study.

Get yourself some print-outs of Z's writings, especially the Mikado Letter, the Seven Page letter and the Little List letter and print out the Ramsey ransom note. Then start looking at the p's and r's and y's and double s's and b's. Go on to the m's, n's and w's. Sail on to words and notice how the i's go down below the baseline and how the h's are uneven in relation to the baseline of words. Study the th combinations. Find where Z wrote "etc.," and compare to the ransom note. Find where Z wrote "killing" and compare to the ransom note. These are dead-on matches. Notice that both writers used exclamation points. Notice that both "taunted" their intended reader. Notice that both writers begin by trying to write straight up but their writing "flops over" to the right as the writer either gets tired or gets in a hurry.

I could go on...but others here don't want to see this and I'll get blasted again. BUT if you have more questions, I'll answer them.

Realtor

PS: You can't do this with a mind already made up!!


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #5 
here is supposed to be another persons post that answered it
Quote:
Realtor,
thanks for filling me in on your theory. Hopefully, you wont catch too much flack over this. I do see similarities between the handwriting samples, but I could say the same about TK's handwriting.

I do keep an open mind and I'll not ridicule your theory. I have a few theories of my own. The fact is, until a theory is proven to be false, anything is possible. There's one thing about your theory that I question. If it was Z wanting to renew his terror, why didn't he leave his signature? He sure went to an awful lot of trouble to gain national attention, why wouldn't he have taken full advantage of the situation? Has Z become shy?


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #6 
Then this one was the third one on the subject and it's all I could find so far:
Quote:
Mhoward:

An excellent question for which I have no ready answer. So I'll theorize...

Not shy. Wicked. Evil.

What comes to mind is that if he identified himself, the "game" would be over...The ransom note was written specifically to try to make it seem that a kidnapping had taken place, performed by a small group of men, one of whom would call Mr. Ramsey between 8 and 10 a.m. to give him instructions on delivering the $118,000 in small bills.

Tragically, everyone on the scene at the Ramsey home that morning at least half way believed it...they sat waiting for the phone to ring but it never did. There had been a search of the home earlier but her body was not found until early afternoon in a remote room in the basement.

Intended or not, the ransom note served many purposes: It bought the killer a lot of time. It cast doubt on the innocence of the parents. It caused more time to be spent trying to match the handwriting to the parents and a huge media hoopla that Zodiac would dearly LOVE. The media has gone so far as to theorize that Mrs. Ramsey killed her daughter because she wet the bed. That scenario, odd as it is, makes me recall what Zodiac wrote...(not a direct quote)...I'll go on killing but I won't tell you about them anymore. I'll make them look like routine robberies, suicides and ACTS OF ANGER...

My open mind says that Zodiac did exactly what he said he'd do, by rope and (possibly) by fire (See Lou Smit's theory that a stun gun was used on JonBenet). None of this would have happened if he had signed it or put his crosshairs on it.

For some reason I think it was his "swan song." I think it's the closing, "Victory!" on the ransom note that makes me think this. He pulled off just one more for old time's sake...and he did it in his "you'll never figure it out in a million years because you are DUMB and I'm too smart for you" mode.

Evidence in the Ramsey home: There's a palm print on the door that matches no one. There's a partial shoe print from maybe Hi-Tech boot. There's DNA under her fingernails that do not belong to any suspect. So you can rule out the parents and begin looking for someone (male per the DNA) who had the urge to kill, the urge to write, the balls to stay in the home after the deed long enough to write (a la Bryan Hartnell's car door), the foresight to bring precut lengths of rope to the house (a la Lake Berryessa), a way to prevent fingerprints from being left while still leaving a palm print (Z: "I cover the tips of my fingers with airplane cement so I don't leave any fingerprints") who taunted Mr. Ramsey in the note, referred to movies, and even ended up with a line similar to the Cheri Jo Bates letter, "It's up to you now, John"... words which also appear IN THE MIKADO for crying out loud, and ended the whole shebang with a puzzle/cipher: "SBTC".

I can go on some more, about Zodiac's possible obsession with holidays, especially Christmas as compared to the fact that JonBenet was killed late Christmas night/early the next morning...About how Zodiac misspelled words in three major ways and the only misspellings in the ransom note match one of Z's most obvious types of misspellings. Shall we discuss radians going through Boulder???

I also think he tried to give a few clues in the ransom note just to see if anyone was paying attention...to see if anyone remembered him...So he couldn't sign the letter. If he had, the most dangerous game would be lost.

I hope he lives long enough for us to know for sure...

Realtor

By Realtor (Realtor) (208.128.16.97) on Monday, November 13, 2000 - 01:33 pm:
This way I don't feel like the Lone Ranger sans Tonto.
Edited to add this point: In fact, the Zodiac killer did add his signature to the ransom note and in several easily detectible ways. On the second page, note how the intersection of 'watching over like' forms a Zodiac killer cross-hairs symbol. To that, several Zodiac killer keywords and nuances can be added, as well as the overall MO. I think that he considered the Ramsey crime as being his "masterpiece" that he boasted about.

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Reply with quote  #7 
I think that zodiackiller.com is probably T Voigts site but the high resolution images of the zodiac killer letters are very helpful, I've found several J-hooked letters, they're smaller and a little more subtle but definitely there. The FBI FOIA Zodiac killer files volume 5 of 6, check out pages 209 and 226. The J-hook facts have been obscured by omission, it's the SF Examiner envelopes that clearly show the JT nuance.
TerryB

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Reply with quote  #8 
When I found that; it was like someone had posted just a single page, it was late and I was tired but I'll go back and track that down, The second time I Googled it I couldn't find it. I'll go back in my browser history later today and post what I have that I can find.

I liked the way the Realtor author put things except I disagree about when the JBR ransom letter was written otherwise his reasoning is good. I'd love to debate or discuss  it with him, according to what he wrote;  he took a lot of flak from others on that forum.




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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #9 
That post by Realtor is allegedly from Voigt's board, I had never seen in before the other day even though several times in the past I made extensive searches with Jonbenet Ramsey and Zodiac Killer keywords, it's under the Mike Mageau thread, apparently he took a lot of flak for making that connection so he too must have been over the target.

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Reply with quote  #10 

I did ask you here TerryB, because you seem to be the only person who is doing the research required to do the right job. I will be here soon, turns out that I will have an entire year off from my education, and I will have more time to investigate the clues than anyone could have expected. Don't Let the trolls get to you, and thank you for the heads up. The troll even noticed himself that he wasn't productive. Let's try to be a little more focused on the end result rather than the human bashing that is going on. TY TerryB, and the bottom line is that when I have the time, I will definitely figure out who is the trolls and who is telling the truth, I promise you that!


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #11 
Well, I came across another interesting nuance about the JBR ransom letter. Page 2. lines 5,6 and 7. Notice a period after the word "daughter" on line 5. Now notice the sentence; "You will be denied her remains for proper burial", notice that the word "You" has a capital "Y". I think this is meant as a definite statement by the killer!

In fact that did happen, BDP police Commander Eller did just that or certainly threatened to do that. I think that the whole matter is highly suspicious. Why did the killer break that statement into a sentence rather than wording it coupled with the previous statement? He could have used "and" to join the two sentences. For example; ...execution of your daughter and you will also be.....etc.


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #12 
I've been studying even  more details surrounding the JBR murder and one story that caught my attention is the testimony of Daniel Pride. Pride said that he thought he encountered Mark Karr at the Boulder Greyhound bus terminal at around 12:30AM 12/26/96, he said the person he encountered was acting very strangely. The thing that makes me think that Prides testimony is pertinent is that he reported that the suspect had a red patch over his heart. Perhaps this was the way one or more co-conspirators could recognized each other. The bus station is said to be a fifteen  minute walk from the Ramsey home.

It wouldn't have necessarily been Karr at the bus station but another similar creep and perhaps all part of the master plan whereby they give Karr a solid alibi to discredit the eyewitnesses. Pride said the suspect looked like Karr but he wasn't 100% sure it was Karr.


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Reply with quote  #13 
Quote:
Originally Posted by TerryB
I've been studying even  more details surrounding the JBR murder and one story that caught my attention is the testimony of Daniel Pride. Pride said that he thought he encountered Mark Karr at the Boulder Greyhound bus terminal at around 12:30AM 12/26/96, he said the person he encountered was acting very strangely. The thing that makes me think that Prides testimony is pertinent is that he reported that the suspect had a red patch over his heart. Perhaps this was the way one or more co-conspirators could recognized each other. The bus station is said to be a fifteen  minute walk from the Ramsey home.<br><br>It wouldn't have necessarily been Karr at the bus station but another similar creep and perhaps all part of the master plan whereby they give Karr a solid alibi to discredit the eyewitnesses. Pride said the suspect looked like Karr but he wasn't 100% sure it was Karr.<br><br>


If you check out the video footage from that night/ morning, Karr is nowhere to be seen. Pride also said it might have been Bill McReynolds he saw at the terminal. Again, not in the video footage. LE have discounted what Pride said.
TerryB

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Reply with quote  #14 
I hadn't read that about McReynolds, can you source that for me? He did emphasize that he wasn't certain it was actually Karr. I think the red spot part of the story fits in with other clues. As you know he also said he had credibility problems "up the ying".

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #15 
I'm trying to find out if Pride's statements were on the record before or after the emergence of Karr, also in a time reference to the release of certain facts in the case. I realize that too may be difficult because of  some of the leaks by LE.

Much like the testimony of Nancy Krebs; it all needs sorting out, her involvement spurs many questions from many angles.


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