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Ahgora

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Reply with quote  #46 
Terry B,

No worries.  Much of the evidence indicates Patsy Ramsey was involved in the cover up.  The logical conclusion is if she was involved with the cover up then she was involved with the murder of her daughter.  No one including the Ramsey's and their attorneys have been able to explain all of the inconsistencies, evidence and problematic behavior that the Ramseys displayed after their daughter was brutally killed.   Please don't attack me - attack the facts and evidence. 
Ahgora

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Reply with quote  #47 

Just to clarify, the DA did not clear the Ramsey's of the murder of their daughter.  In fact, the DA cannot clear anyone of any crime.  What Mary Lacy said in the letter was that they would no longer pursue an indictment against them and would no longer view them as suspects. Huge difference. Essentially, their letter was an acknowledgment that police had not brought sufficient evidence to the DA for them to charge the Ramseys with a crime and bring a successful prosecution in court, and that’s true regardless of whether one or both of the Ramseys were guilty or innocent. The DA was letting the family know they were dropping the case until such time as new evidence was developed that might make a prosecution viable.  If new evidence were to surface, the DA can bring charges against the Ramseys at anytime.

Furthermore, the ‘touch’ DNA evidence didn’t clear the Ramseys either, since it was never established what relationship that DNA had to the crime, whether it belonged to the perpetrator of the murder or was miscellaneous DNA on Jon Benet from an incidental source.  These are all FACTS.

TerryB

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Reply with quote  #48 
That's more dirty lies by Ahgora, there is no evidence that the Ramsey's did anything wrong.

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Reply with quote  #49 

Here is the letter from the DA to Mr. Ramsey:

 

http://www.gazette.com/articles/dna-38047-evidence-crime.html

 

This was printed by the Associate Press, and based on the info given to me while in contact with Boulder Co. PD on this matter, the Ramsey's had been cleared by touch DNA in this case in 2008.

 

So, Ahgora your perception that the Ramsey's had not been cleared in any manner is entirely inconsistent with the news and what I have been told by LE.

 

Now can we get back to the only evidence that is available which is the handwriting.

 

I must clarify something that TerryB said, I have never examined Patsy's handwriting; however, I would be happy to do so if someone wants to point me to it.

 

I am clearly ready to get this investigation under way, and I am happy to have some new help in the area of private investigating.


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Ahgora

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Reply with quote  #50 
Nanette,

I think our differences are semantics based.  When I state that the DA did not "clear" the Ramsey's, I mean that unlike a Judge/Jury that finds someone innocent, the DA can still press charges against the Ramseys if sufficent evidence were to arise that showed they were involved with the commision of the murder of their daughter.  The DA has cleared the Ramsey's name of being an active suspect and they have publicly announced that they do not think that the Ramseys committed the crime.  But the DA cannot find them legally innocent of the crime.  I wanted to make that distinction because many people interpret the letter incorreclty.  Please re-read my post.

Also, thank you for clarifying your involvement with Patsy's handwriting.  This is just another example of mis-information that is published in these forums.
habituation

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Reply with quote  #51 

When the DA says, "I wish I could have excluded your family before Patsy died," is a pretty good sign that they do not believe that there was family involvement. I have not entirely read up on this case, but plan on doing so, it seems pretty clear that the letter from the DA was an apology letter.

 

I still have not seen this type of crime publicized where another mother was apart of such cruelty. I still think that it is far beyond a mother to commit the things that the Ramsey's were scrutinized for, and hardly believe some of the facts and evidence that was scrapped together in this case.

 

This is my plight with all of these cases, they are unsolved, people wrongly framed for them, and the evidence and theories go in all kinds of directions. Look at JMK in this case, and tell me there isn't something to ponder?

 

I will be completing an exam on Patsy as it turns out. It seems fair that if I condemn someone of these writings, I should then look at those involved as well. My feeling however, is that if I can identify one person, then I would need to be able to show that at least 8 million other people personally could know this information contained in the letter to be another person who might possibly match the handwriting, and I just don't see that being possible. But, I keep an open mind, and I would admit it if I were wrong. I will post my findings on the handwriting on this thread.


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #52 
There's no evidence that the Ramsey's did anything wrong other than not being vigilant about their own personal security. Not one bit of EVIDENCE that they did anything wrong or were actively involved in either the murder or a cover-up the crime...none !

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Reply with quote  #53 

This is where I beg the posters to prove up their claims. You cannot come on here and say that there is a mountain of evidence against someone without clearly making those points with a secondary source that backs your statements. I have not seen a shred of evidence that could not be explained away that clearly supports the Ramsey's involvement, and as long as there can be another explanation there is doubt. Show us the evidence is all I ask!!!


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #54 
It was the BDP and FBI that were blatantly wrong in the Ramsey case, the FBI told BDP that they had never seen a case like it where the parents didn't do it. Since the FBI was very and suspiciously late to arrive at the scene; how could they say such a thing without carefully looking at all of the evidence? 

Just the screwy aspects of the ransom letter should have told anyone with a reasonable amount of brainpower that the parents didn't write the thing, both of the parents were college educated and NOT stupid people, certainly not dumb enough to commit the crime, write a wacky and viscous  3 page ransom note and leave the body on the premises.

Then had the officials examined the body carefully they would and should  have realized the this was a very deliberate, viscous and brutal murder, not  just a simple skull fracture.

The basic facts and evidence should have taken suspicion off of the parents right from the start yet a few key people chose to deliberately point the finger at the parents. This is why I think the crime was part of a conspiracy.

Given the FACT that DNA and all of the evidence clears the parents is what causes me to say; "that anyone at this point in time that claims that the parents did it must be part of a conspiracy to cover, if they are not part of a conspiracy then the have to be really arrogant, ignorant and just plain dumb."

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #55 
One must read and double check things in the JBR case to be properly informed, there is a lot of info on the net but some of it is just plain wrong and doesn't compare with the known evidence.

This list is a "work in progress" by me.

 
Odd Evidence in the Ramsey case:

-pineapple found in the victims GI track, bowl of fresh cut pineapple with large spoon discovered later on, Ramsey's had no reason to deny that they fed to her if it were true that they did

-water glass with tea bag in it and Kleenix box found next to the bowl of pineapple, Ramsey's said they knew nothing about it and again had no reason to lie about it

-black duct tape found on victim was never sourced, no roll of it was found in the house, duct tape had been recently manufactured.

  Correction: Iedited to add: In fact it was black gaffers tape, which is as specialized tape that is more narrow than 2 inch duct tape, I also suspect that is was meant to serve as a mimic of the Black Dahlia victim's wounds.

-tip of paint brush used to break victims hymen and part of garrote was never found

-sharpie used to write ransom note was of  a much older mfg date than other markers found in the home

-several pages on tablet used to construct the ransom note and practice note were never found

-beaver hairs found on victim

-brown cotton glove fibers found on victim

-brown paper bag type fibers found on victims bed, perhaps from a cardboad tube used to carry the ransom note ?

-evidence victim was strangled twice, second event meant to kill her, blow to head came when victim was already dead

-stun gun marks on victims neck and leg, former Det. Steve Thomas called the stun gun evidence "make believe", yet many experts confirm that nothing else explains the duplicate marks and spacing and  it is an exact fit to the Air Taser brand [edited to add: this evidence may tie into evidence that a second assailant may have been involved in this viscous murder.]

-a copy of Mind Hunter by John Douglas was found in Ramsey home, Ramsey's said they knew nothing about it and had no reason to lie about it

-a copy of a book in Danish was found in the home but Ramsey's said they knew nothing about it and had no reason to lie, (Is JT sending a message with this ?, I tend to think so)

-victim was wrapped in a blanket but her  legs and feet weren't covered(?)

-victims arms were both poised upwards same as E.Short, skeleton card and spooky picture of Jack

-brown paper bag with rope in it found in the guest bedroom, same room overlooked the garage and rear entrance to garage [edited to add: I've recently discovered the significance of the brown paper bag mentioned on the ransom note along with the cowgirl photo shoot that has rope at the feet of the victim and the fact that a new pair of cowboy boots along with a small suitcase with men's clothes in it was found at their summer home, this is clear evidence of premeditation and stalking]

-photo of bed in guest bedroom shows that the dust ruffle was out of place in an otherwise tidy room, perhaps caused by a search for victim, the public domain doesn't have details on this

-red outline type "heart" shaped figure drawn on the life lines of the victim hand, JT had a small red heart tattoo on his arm

-Barbie doll outfit found near victim, may have simply stuck to the blanket

-BDP claimed voices heard at the end of the 911 tape but the noise level was far too high for this to be a valid claim

- Fleet White was said to have called 911 on the 23rd, police arrived, his version of  this event  is not in the public domain

-upon arrival on the morning of the crime; Fleet White looked in cellar room but claimed it was "too dark" in there, he had been in this same windowless room on previous occasions

-Fleet White and his wife were the only friends of the Ramsey's to point suspicion at the Ramsey's and did so repeatedly.

-Edited to add: The stuffed toy 'jack' rabbit found at the victims grave is the killer's calling card. The rope evidence is strongly linked to the 1978 death scene of Chris Busch as he relates to the OCCK case, the 'screaming boy' drawing found taped to his wall has several Zodiac killer markings on it. On the desk was a VW Rabbit brochure, in his otherwise tidy closet, was a pile of rope. "By Rope" was an unfulfilled Zodiac killer threat. OCCK victim Jill Robinson's death was exactly 20 years to the day earlier to the murder of JonBenet, an poetic anagram of their ages, DOB and DOD's is uncanny.


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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #56 
Sorry Fleet but that's the song.

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #57 
I'll admit that I'm a bit troubled by the Ramsey's behavior after the fact but I'm really more troubled by John Ramsey's behavior than his wife's. Since there is no direct evidence to show they were directly involved; I reject the notion that they were somehow involved. I am troubled by the fact that he downplays the whole thing and resorts to a bunch of religious pity about her passing. I know this seems like double talk.....and it is but it's my way of saying "first things first."

I'm also troubled by not only the Krebs factor but the Jameson factor. Jameson is either terribly naive and/or involved in a cover up. In a PM she stated that Nanette Barto wasn't credible, she also blew off some important aspects of the Krebs factor.

Jameson also hasn't acknowledged the JT initial clues found plastered all over the JBR ransom letter. Many people involved in these cases know damn good and well that the JT initial clues are all over that document, including Hunter, I wanna like Alex Hunter because I admire him somewhat...... but he's got to come clean with me.

Sorry kids but that's the song. My parents were sticklers about honesty and so am I !

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Reply with quote  #58 
I do find the pineapple and the KFC an interesting point. Who feeds a child before they kill them? This almost seems like the person is not completely ok with what they are having to do. It's like giving someone their last meal before death row! Very sick and twisted individuals.

Do they tell you if the pineapple was in the Ramsey home or brought by the perp?

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TerryB

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Reply with quote  #59 
Nanette, the BDP claimed it was fresh cut pineapple, Patsy Ramsey said she only had the canned type on hand.

Yeah, I agree, like it was giving the condemned their last meal, some really sick human dogs that did these murders. This is yet another subtle but real cross-connected clue. That tea bag in the glass is another one we've talked about. Then the Danish book, the Mindhunter book, the rope in the bag, the beaver hairs on the victim, all too many things that point right to Zodiac Jack as the mastermind of the crime. Too much staging to the whole thing really.

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Reply with quote  #60 
The book doesn't surprise me because a lot of these crimes have some type of media involved with them whether a movie, the latest news, or a book.

They have fresh cut pineapple, a 3 page handwritten letter, rope, a garrot, and so much more, but no fingerprints, and a DNA that can't be traced to anyone.

So as to say that this little girl was killed by someone who never killed before and never killed again, and has no rap sheet. That just smells bad...

Maybe there will be a death bed confession just like in the Adam Walsh case. LOL

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